I like this idea a lot.... I'm gonna do a lot more of it too!

I remember seeing lots of people in the self improvement space talk about the idea of a "paradigm shift" and they all gave the same example Stephen Covey mentioned in The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.

It drove me nuts!

Didn't they have examples from their own lives that demonstrate the idea?

Not only can we integrate ideas into our worldview, but what we read often expresses what we've already experienced so we can reference our own lives.

Thanks for sharing!

I've been crediting my dad, my grandma, and "there's an old say that says..." for years rather than just sharing my thoughts, beliefs and ideas as my own.

I'm going to follow your lead here, Derek. Thanks for the prompt.

Word!

I have to say, "Wow", and it's your site here, "Where's the spam? The advertisements? Is this what our WWW 'should' look like? Whatever, I dig it!
Thank you!! A breath of cool, sweet Oregon air!

I think you are onto something. I just imagined how much this can speed up the evolution of ideas of everybody was doing this.

"Make quotes your own." -Max ;-)

I think I do this to lend more credibility to the thing I'm about to say. "Hey this isn't just my thought, this really famous/respected/successful person said it so it must be true and you should agree with me". I suppose if you're sivers then you probably don't need to "appeal to authority" :)

The power of the footnote!

I sympathize with Paul D'Arcy at #3.
And I have to chuckle: I wonder how many people come up with a smart saying, feel modest, and then attribute it to ancient Chinese or American Indian elders?

On a slightly different angle: As a university student newspaper reporter, it was second nature, both in print and when I spoke in class, to rattle off my sources. I would say company, position, name. In that order. It was fun. Granted, my sources were never self-help books with long titles.

If it's fun, it's considerate. If not, then not.

Hi Derek
Welcome back, dear friend!!
I'm happy that you are back!

I was wondering about this topic too!
I think, in this way, quotes reincarnate and become more alive!
Saying the quote in my own words means giving the quote a deep thought and living it instead of saying it timidly and referring it to another!


Anyway, in my opnion, no one is original!
Even the the great scientist had to stand on the shoulders of their teachers ...

Thank you for this article, it's a great one. To me it goes to ways:
1. If it's something I learned recently and don't really feel that I've thought and internalized enough - I will use the reference.
2. For the lessons that I've learned years or months ago and really am applying in my own life and thought about them etc. - I will treat them as my own. Not because I don't want to credit the author, but because I often forgot the actual source and after internalizing something you really come up with other wording that feels better (at least for you).

Thanks for sharing.

I particularly like your second point. We've been out of school a long time, damn it, we can be informal now. :) Far better to have flowing, fun conversations than be precise and nerdy with citations.

Great idea. Thank you in advance from all my future interlocutors :) Oh boy, how guilty I’ve been of summarising the biography of unknown blogger or author before making my point :) Sad consequence - nobody will probably hear about you from me anymore :(

Ps. Maybe 4th reason is: You like to show that you read a lot and you know Kahneman. It works on sapiosexuals :)

Absorb what is useful discard what is not, add what is uniquely your own.

Like this. Been doing it a bit more recently. And, I still make reference to my main mentors. 🙃

I love this. I got into this bad habit through academia. This was already on my mind but this seals it for me, thanks!!!!

I'm adopting this idea :)

I love this. This reference hopping in so many texts nowadays is robbing way too much energy. Also if you do this you discredit yourself, you present yourself as a student rather than an expert of the topic.
Of course a quote can add spice to your writiung, be a punchline or even a classic phrase of wisdom that stood the test of time. But the rest has to be worth more than the classic 2cts.

So it is okay for me to "stealing" your ideas?

Very useful advice.

Some people take their ideas so seriously. Often thinking they own an entire 'space' when it comes to a specific area in an industry. The tactics even become somewhat bullying. How dare you talk about 'language' in respect to this industry. That's my field!

It's hilarious (if you are not the one being attacked).

But yes, I see people write about things that I've know about or done. I just never publicly wrote about it. Hats off to them for writing. This is a nice nudge to just get writing (more) again,.

I feel the reason why I'm quoting someone often is for validity. If such person said so, it must be true and I don't have to go through "all the hustle" of explaining why. But I realize it's the opposite of ad hominem, which ain't good. I'll try to improve that, thanks for making the point!

One part of me also does it because I feel the original author of the quote unpacked it and gave it more nuance than I could possibly do in a conversation (in the lines of your "I'm a slow thinker" post). I also feel like those are the spoken version of Wikipedia links to other articles (or the way you link the content on your website). So I say it because that way people can explore it further if it resonates with them. But the reality is that probably no one actually does it, so I should wait to see that it resonates before expecting them to go deeper.

I was glad to see I wasn't the only one thinking about this. I usually feel guilty about this. Probably because I spent so much time in school. It seems ironic that I am concerned with quoting sources when many of the sources I quote took the information from somewhere without quoting it themselves.

Precisely.

Like the late great A.A. Milne said in his book If I May, "A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself, always a laborious business."

Derek, this is one of my favorite posts of yours.

It's SO engrained in us, coming out of academia, to source every single idea we're putting out there. The plagiarism police are circling, with an aim to sniff out thievery and -- as someone (maybe Gladwell? Oh what the hell, I'm saying it now) "enforce originality at the level of the sentence."

I like your take that in popular writing the writer's main obligation is to readers. We owe it to them to be clear.

You and I corresponded once. You kindly gave me permission to use a photo for a blog post, this one:

http://brucegrierson.com/yoohoo-anybody-out-there/


Keep up the good work.

bg

That's definitely a more efficient way to go about things and I've been doing the same thing myself. Should I credit you for that? 😁

Nothing new under the sun. We don't have ideas. Ideas have us. To act on this advice is difficult. Thanks for giving me a reference for not feeling quilty about being a channel for clear and succint ideas. It is like taking the noise away from the note.

Derek
Will try that! I discussed your hell yeah hell no blog on my podcast. And I referenced your name to give you credit. It just seemed like the right thing to do. But I also see your point. Will try it next time and give you credit for giving me the idea not to give your name as the reference! :)

This is something I've thought about a lot lately, because I feel like I'm partly writing fiction to capture what's in the air, without the drudgery of attribution.

In nonfiction, certain ideas emerge almost constantly anyway, and it can be tedious (as you say) to read citations constantly.

Maybe it's not just the drudgery of citing things either—density of ideas per page would go up without footnotes, not to mention the number of ideas an author could reference without fear. I suppose the only thing that's lost is if a reader really wants an expanded version of the idea that's in source material. But hopefully, if ideas are articulated clearly enough, they can be hunted down with little effort. Presumably this was how it worked before writing was invented: You just asked around.

If someone took an idea of mine without attribution, I think I'd be happy about it anyway. Or at least I aspire to consider "mine" a childish impulse that I'd rather resist.

There's a story about Dylan being asked how he felt about Hendrix doing a better version of "All Along the Watchtower," and Dylan saying something along the lines of: "I wrote it for him to play." (Not going to look up whether it's true or not :)

Sometimes a post feels like it is speaking to you directly.

Blossoming from the student to the teacher.

Again, every one is unique. Some have great memories and some some can hardly remember what they said yesterday. Other people have thinking brains and not much memory but they know how to get things done. Those are the people that companies like to hire when they need to get things accomplished that are new and quickly needed.

We absorb...we learn...we share...we grow...giving credit where it is due is ok at the apt time. To claim an idea as yours when you know it’s not is basically a lie. Is borrowing theft or only after a certain amount of time...? Surely the point is the outcome of the shared knowledge...

Those things make sense but there is an argument FOR referencing. Every time you mention a person, what they say, do or anything else, you are potentially connecting up a reader to someone. This can help both parties in the transaction to get content or followers or anything else.

This thinking is along the lines of Keith Ferrazi's Never eat Alone idea. It strengthens bonding and ties. Its a good thing for more people to be connected to each other, benefiting mutually.

And, by the way, I read that book because of you mentioning it! Win win!!

There are ideas I never would've come up with on my own. Presenting them without attribution really would feel to me like stealing.

The trick is not to stack the attributions on top of each other. A sea of them makes the writing more tedious. Just one makes it interesting.

Most people aren't even really listening to what we say anyways... :)
Let the lawyers quote and cross reference.
Plus it kinda comes off as bragging when someone is "so well-read" they quote references constantly.

Funny. I just sent myself an email to remind how a paraphrased what you said in the last article I read. "Steal time of comfort to do great things."

When I came to this country (US) after spending my childhood in Asia, quoting the source was one of the first things I noticed teachers emphasized, or else, it was considered plagiarism, and consequences were detention and public embarrassment. Back where I come from, we state the fact, ideas as our own unless we are talking about charts and stats. But this very rule of having to cite the source, reference the source in the US put unnecessary stop to my growth because I was too bogged down by what I was allowed to say as my own and what I should give credit to others for. It really is unnecessary clutter to spreading ideas. The line of what is considered okay to present and what must be referenced was never clearly defined and is in the way of effective communications.

Yes to this!!!

Straight to the point. Good artist copy great artist steal. Make it yours and own it.

What a great piece of advice! I completely agree with you. I've increasingly been getting bored by latest non-fiction books with that kind of approach, a sort of collage of quotes and thoughts from other people. I'd rather read the seminal works so I can "drink from the sources".

Ahhhh. I love that. I feel like that's where I am right now. I've been running a magazine for the past 4 years. It felt like a huge research project. I've read and referenced everyone else's ideas. I've been ingesting and contemplating them. And now I'm ready to create something that's my own. It is scarier than quoting someone else. It's more responsibility.

Excellent suggestion, Derek! I quote people all the time, including in the books I’ve published. You mention 3 good reasons we quote others, and I’ll give you a 4th: insecurity. I am working on becoming more self-confident, but I still find myself quoting others who are more authoritative or famous or whatever than me. It’s as if I think my opinion isn’t good enough so I have to bolster it by citing someone else. Thank you for the aha! ☺

My favorite self quote:
"Better to have the hope of joy than the assurance of perpetual resignation"

I had the same mini revelation after seeing myself constantly buying books and then running to get them to lend to people when they asked about a particular topic. One day I thought “Why not just learn what the books say and then share?”. Everything we say ends up being a translation anyway so we can become something similar to the different Bible translations and be the “New Derek Version” of the text.

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds and petty statesman :)

The day I read this post, I was in the midst of reviewing my own blog, and guess what I found...

This article — https://www.greig.cc/hostage/ — which is based around a quote/concept by you know who!

I think you're right... quotes can become a crutch, something you rely on for support, and that ultimately weakens your writing, even if they appear to strengthen it in the short-term.

Thank you for writing about this. I've noticed that I'll search for a quote from someone else that captures an idea rather than take the time to think through and write out my own thoughts.

I smiled when I read your metaphor "like adopting a child, I will take care of this idea and raise it as my own." Yes.

I used to say who wrote whatever song I was about to play if it was a cover song, now I just play the song. If someone asks “did you write that?” Or “who wrote that?”, I tell them. If they don’t ask I don’t tell them.

Now I cover quotes! Great idea Derek.

This idea is now mine ☺

I have just had a paradigm shift. Thank you.

Hi Derek,

I wanted to thank you for this one.

When I was writing my last book I thought my first draft was the best thing I’d ever written. My wife wasn’t sold. Neither was my editor.

The first draft was built entirely on quotations and citations.

The major rewrite note… author = authority.

They both pushed me out of my comfort zone to answer… What did I think?

Thanks again for sharing.

Mark
author = authority ← wow I never noticed that. Thanks Mark! — Derek

Hey, I am doing the same thing. Reading a lot a quoting in my manuscript. But right now I am in the “it’s a mess” phase. I do believe in quoting AND attributing, but it has got to be crafted so that the reader doesn’t notice. I know I’m going to have to, pardon the phrase, kill some babies as well as synthesize my reading to form my own prose. As a tool to facilitate the narrative I like the quotes.

I've re-read this post at least 10 times this week.

Thank you for writing more, I've followed you for years, and it has taken me a while to ever comment on your work publicly, because I thought you don't need it. But now I'm commenting because I need it, I want you to know how much this post has given me the freedom I never thought I needed.

One of mine I still like: "No matter how far you travel, you're always halfway home." Use at your leisure and make it yours. ☺

Can I quote you on this?

I highly recommend this. Stop referencing. Stop quoting. Paraphrase. Internalize it. Make it yours. Tell me what you think, not what someone else thinks.

It always felt like I was stealing someone else's idea. Like taking credit for someone else's song, for example.

Love this idea, Derek. I'm going to start to not quote you. Haha.

I love this! Partially because I always worry about mis-crediting the source and partly because I often paraphrase the reference anyway. Internalizing quotes feels like a natural way of relating to and learning from people.

I saw a tweet today by @AliAbdaal where he asked for comments on this post and saying how he felt funny not giving credit to the sources of his ideas. I don't see that many researchers directly presenting the results of thier work in a format that can be easily understood and/or implemented by the general public. Most ideas are just repackaged and sold to an audience mostly looking for a quick fix. So I agree, usually the the origional source of the idea never gets credit becasue there have been so much downstream tangential presenters of the massaged origional information. I have been reading within a Notion app group that are all enthralled with Tiago Forte. He is the classic example of someone who takes what he has reads, repackages it and sells it for a hefty price. I don't see him giving anyone credit and he boldly just tweeted he exceeded $1MM income in three years. Obviously none of his followers care about the sources of his ideas and are more then happy to proclaim him a profit, even Ali Abdaal. So why did he tweet the question?

The idea resonates with me. In my daily journal, I would often copy quotes that inspire me and I would draw a big quotation mark before the quote, indicating how important it is. I do the same for the thoughts in my own words that inspire me. It’s my subtle way of telling me that my words are just as worthy to be quoted.

Recently, I am inspired to restart my blog. And I like the idea of focusing on the essentials (thanks to your example).
At such, I quoted you:

To quote Derek Sivers, “Yes my site is plain on purpose. It’s my minimalist desire for only what’s needed.”
I want to focus on what matters: The content.

I still feel guilty to leave out the source.

That's a pretty cool idea.

Wow!! It’s funny...because I came back to your website because I read your book several years ago and found myself referencing the book often, as of lately...lol...I thought it was important to reference where the genius came from! But then again, now I have a different perspective to consider.

This was the post I was waiting for from someone. Thank God someone just said about this thing. I used to think that maybe it is plagiarism and used to feel guilty , maybe I am stealing their work. The fear was so much that I stopped sharing ideas from books with others.Thank you so much for this post . Now I am at ease and can continue reading books and share ideas.

It is what you say, what you belief that matter, instead of saying what other people say. Thank you Derek, I totally agree with you on integrating ideas from other people into our own language system, not just replicate/quote what other people say.

Couldnt agree more... get to the point... And honestly.. what someone said, may have triggered you to think about this and make it your own, varying slightly for a small detail...

Kinda depends for me. If the idea is based on research, by losing the reference, you strip the idea of its evidence base, and return it to an assertion. It also robs the reader of the opportunity to further explore the idea. I guess the balance would be having a further reading section, and not cluttering you the body text with inline referencing.

While I think this is a worthwhile idea for informal conversation, I think it should be clarified that this habit may cross over into formal writing where we may inadvertently be plagiarizing.

I just found your blog today, and this piece, caught my eye as a writer and a Toastmaster.

This is helpful for me as I have had those moments when I debate if to use a quote or simply share my take on it. You've reminded and inspired me to embrace the fact that if I write about something it is because I did internalize the idea and the reason I write is to share my perspective.

Thank you for your fun and intelligent TEDTalks. I watched the "How to Start a MovemenT" a few times as it is delightful. It's one that if I ruled the world I would have it be required viewing in school.

I look forward to more of your content as I just subscribed to your YouTube.

Thanks again, keep up the great and inspiring work.

Sincerely,

Alice

Even sometimes, while I was trying to refer the book and the author I used to forget the main idea.

I suppose if you don't want to steal, you could just say, "As somebody said, '...'" Then, as MD at #50 said, if listeners want to ask for more then you can tell them.

I would be tickled pink if, after I quoted, someone then asked me the three questions of a certain scientist, questions that "true believers" of social media never ask:
Who said so?
Who's he?
How does he know?