Taiwan Restricts Russia, Belarus To CPUs Under 25 MHz Frequency - Slashdot
source link: https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/22/06/01/2057218/taiwan-restricts-russia-belarus-to-cpus-under-25-mhz-frequency
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Taiwan Restricts Russia, Belarus To CPUs Under 25 MHz Frequency
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Starting today, Russian entities cannot buy chips that meet one of the following conditions from Taiwanese companies, reports DigiTimes:
- Has performance of 5 GFLOPS. To put it into context, Sony's PlayStation 2 released in 2000 had peak performance of around 6.2 FP32 GFLOPS.
- Operates at 25 MHz or higher.
- Has an ALU that is wider than 32 bits.
- Has an external interconnection with a data transfer rate of 2.5 MB/s or over.
- Has more than 144 pins.
- Has basic gate propagation delay time of less than 0.4 nanosecond.
In addition to being unable to buy chips from Taiwanese companies, Russian entities will not be able to get any chip production equipment from Taiwan, which includes scanners, scanning electron microscopes, and all other types of semiconductor tools that can be used to make chips locally or perform reverse engineering (something that the country pins a lot of hopes on).
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It will drive up the price for them with some middleman country reaping the reward
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Putin didn't invade because he thought DT was going to win or do a civil war and destroy the US and Ukraine at the same time by stopping aid. Why let Putin win? Proxy war is fine, the world has been doing that since 1946.
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Putin was waiting for Trump to withdraw from (and thereby cripple) NATO, giving him free reign to do whatever he wanted.
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Russia didn't invade until Putin got sick and realized that his plan had to change into a rush job.
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Tourists smuggle USB drives to Cuba for their citizens, but they are still not exactly a technological powerhouse. I hope we can make the new Soviet Union more like them. I think we will.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/... [www.cbc.ca]-
No they don't. You could go to Cuba yourself to see, except your government won't let you.
Land of the free.
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I'm Canadian and Cuba has long been a popular tourist destination. Hence the Canadian news link.
Cuba is still not known for its advanced technology.-
Cuba also does not care one jot whether you bring in USB devices, smuggled or not.
I had several on me the last time I went, and the customs guys didn't bat an eylid.
The whole point of the link you posted is that American still sanctions Cuba, more than 60 years after losing a war to them which is why Cubans have to reply on pirated movies.
There is no way Cubans are the bad guys.-
Hope you brought them something useful.
America does still sanction Cuba, and I don't agree with it, but there is no denying it has held back their economy bigtime. Now we will do the same to Russia. They actually deserve it. My response to the OP "Cuba also has import restrictions on technology. It didn't stop them." remains unchanged. -
Let that be a lesson to the world: the only country allowed to beat the Americans is Canada.
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the 90s called. they want their cccp back.
probably. that will be one important ally down for china. wrecking ukraine in the process is just the cost of doing democracy...
it will be fun to watch if it backfires, though!:o)
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Sadly so does Putin.
We will rebuild Ukraine with Russia's money. Just wait and watch.
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for the border wall?
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No for the yachts to be auctioned.
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A tactical nuke would be the end of Russia. That would get the attention of so many other nations that Russia would not have a chance.
I don't know precisely how the USA would respond but that's likely a declaration of war. After that Russia's stockpiles of WMDs would be targeted. Then comes Russia's fuel supplies. Then the leaders would be targeted. The goal is to stop Russia, not kill the people. Kill those making the orders at the top, Putin and his Generals.
The only way for the west to back out is
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Cuba does not consider themselves a world power that needs to flight technology.
It's just not the same thing. Trying to field a modern dominating military and economy that can't buy the electronics needed to field those things is not the same as a Caribbean country that isn't trying to take over the world.
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About the best PC CPU you can get is a 386.
I wonder where you can download a copy of DOS 6 and Win 3.1?
People of Russia. Remember Putin did this to you.-
> People of Russia. Remember Putin did this to you.
> DOS 6 and Win 3.1?
and Bill Gates did this to us.
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DOS 6 was the last decent OS Microsoft ever made.
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DOS was an operating system?
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Some people claim that's what the OS in DOS stands for. But they're just conspiracy theorists.
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Single user, no native networking, no multitasking
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Hey, but it provided a file system. What do you think the D in DOS stands for ?
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Who fucking cares, they can die mad about it. The only way they can damage the US is with nukes, which means 90% of the Russian population on the planet will die in hellfire. I mean, if they're that mad about it I guess it's an option lol.
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About the best PC CPU you can get is a 386.
I wonder where you can download a copy of DOS 6 and Win 3.1?Well, not all 386s either. I've used a 386 40MHz and that machine screamed on Windows 3.1. But they can adopt a 486 as well - there were 486SX-25 processors.
But... nah. You really wanted a 33MHz 386 for Windows 3.1.
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A Russian activist said Putin is taking the Russian economy back to the 1990s. Why not make it official with beige '90s boxes, Doom parties, techno raves, and lots of beige Dockers.
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To be fair, a 386 will be an upgrade for many
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Dont remember the 386 days anymore... I vaguely recall it was only DOS available at that time. Windows 3.1 was 486 days... no?
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I remember those days, upgrading from a 286 to a 386SX and then 486DX between 1989 - 1992 .
486 were quite expensive in the early 1990s. 386s were much more common for that era. RAM was extremely pricey as much.
I bought a 486DX with 16MB of RAM as a teenager to run OS/2 2.0 in 1992. That cost about $4000 back then.Interestingly, Wikipedia says i386 production only stopped in 2007. I had no idea it went on for that long. 22 years is quite a run for a CPU. I don't think any new PCs used any 386 variant past 19
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This triggered a memory of when I was young, when we found out that even though everyone else was using 386 CPUs at the time (the 486 had not been released yet if memory serves correctly) that the KGB only had old Apple II and Apple II clone computers on their desks.
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Hey Russia, I have some 386's @ 16Mhz for you at slightly inflated prices! Act now and Ill include some windows 3.0!
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Hard pass comrade, rather have a 486DX-25 with Win95
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so that Russia doesn't have the cash to keep the war in Ukraine going. If they divert too much from keeping their country afloat there'll be a coup. It won't end in democracy, but at the very least Putin will hang if that happens. And that's if he's lucky. There are worse ways to die.
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You know what the US did to end the war in Japan? They bombed the fuck out of them. And then they nuked them. All that without 25 MHz frequency CPUs.
Some whataboutery for you.-
While true, the US in 1945 didn't have to worry about other countries freezing us out of the world economy or cutting us off from vital suppies - pretty much everyone was behind getting Japan to surrender.
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the point is, russia doesn't really give a shit about US "sanctions". they have all the materials they need on their territory, and produce sufficient food.
the US are deluded to believe they'll win this one in the long term.
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I heard PutiePie's biggest fear is to end up having his body dragged through the streets of Moscow.
In the spirit of reconciliation, I offer the following compromise: drag half his body through Moscow and half through Kyiv.
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And let's hope they don't figure out how to overclock those CPUs....
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Considering how abysmally [reuters.com] Russian guided missiles have performed, they have a long way to go [nytimes.com] even if they can afford these chips. Hitting a toilet on a beach [coventrytelegraph.net] with a $5 million missile is about as Russian as you can get when talking about accuracy.
Russia is so desperate for chips, they've pulled them out of stolen washing machines [yahoo.com]. If they can't get much performance out of a modern chip, they are in for a world of hurt using something from 20+ years ago.
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Comment shouldn't have been downvoted. The stripping-washing-machines bit is a bit farfetched. And even if it isn't true, it would just be a result of dumb soldiers hearing "We need chips!" and thinking stealing random chips from consumer electronics will somehow help.
I'm sure the person from the Ukrainian government who told the anecdote believes it too, because people don't understand how electronics work.
The Russians are stealing washing machines for the same reason anyone else steals stuff. They're valu
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Only if they have enough 50+ year old programmers who still know how to write clean efficient code. Getting hard to find these days.
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that's just a consequence of the idiotic US school system.
Russian kids trounce US kids in all the sciences.
hell, a large population of US kids believe that the earth is flat !
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Interplanetary (and arguably now interstellar) probes that navigate around planets that are 4.5 billion km away, operate for over four decades, and *still* aim an antenna sufficiently well to communicate with a small blue dot that is over 14.5 billion km away can also be made within those restrictions.
Doesn't mean it's going to be easy or quick to do though, which I guess is kind of the point of the sanction. This is all about depriving Russia of the tech they have grown accustomed to and forcing them to-
You think that's impressive, you wouldn't believe how fast a thrown rock solves Einstein's equations.
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There's a global energy shortage coming if we don't see things improve in a hurry.
In the USA we see a moronic federal government decide to react to high fuel prices by increasing the amount of corn turned into ethanol fuel. That's not a wise thing to do.
This energy shortage is largely self imposed. Russia did a lot of damage in Ukraine that will keep food and fuel flowing out of that region of the world. That did nothing to stop people from producing food and fuel in other parts of the world. What stopp
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Indeed, and they will be destroyed on impact. For a nation that likely had to import all of their electronics they may be reluctant to blow up valuable computing power like that.
There was an article highlighted on Slashdot of someone that was making logic chips in his parents' garage. By scavenging for lab equipment from various sources, and some creative application of off the shelf consumer goods, he was making something much like 7400 TTL logic chips in a garage. Russia may have to end up doing things
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I mean you aren’t wrong. Russia used to produce tons of semiconductors for their own domestic and military markets. From transistors to logic gates to custom hybrid designs.
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Not so much C3 nodes or the things that make platforms like the S-400 or the T-14's "APS" work. DSPs for radar, IR, sonar, etc. are crucial and are restricted.
Left in place long enough and this will degrade their media production and video surveillance systems. So many cheap NVR systems are based on things like the Hi3536 or similar SoCs; they have Arm Cortex CPUs at their heart, usually multi-core, usually running low-GHz clocks. All restricted now. Modern media camera platforms are similarly outfitted.
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those are imported from China...
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I'm sure it would still violate some of the other restrictions, but curious if not, why not.
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25 Mhz is close the record low frequency for an Intel CPU of this decade. Microcontrollers like you'd see in an Arduino or Raspberry Pi 2040 can go all the way down to lees than 1 Hz.
The basic processing logic can go as slow as you want. There are a few blocks like the random number generator that have analog considerations and expect a clock tick to come along every now again. Which isn't to say I know that the rng specifically has a lower limit, but I can see how it *might* based on my understanding of the circuit. A modern INtel CPU has a LOT of different blocks doing a lot of different things, some that have considerations on the analog domain.
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I assume that 25MHz refers to how fast you could clock it, not how fast you do clock it. In principle, there shouldn't be any reason why you can't clock a modern CPU at 25Mhz, but some operations might time out. For instance, the RAM in modern computers is basically banks of billions of tiny capacitors, each of which can hold a charge or not, to represent a 1 or a 0. The charge leaks away quite quickly, and has to be periodically refreshed. The refresh interval is normally derived from the system clock, so if it's happening at a few percent of the frequency that it's meant to, the charge might drain before the chip has a chance to work out whether it needs to put the charge back. So your RAM might appear to always contain all zeroes.
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They could consult with CenturyLink - from what I've seen, CenturyLink is quite experienced in offering and maintaining very slow technology.
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I wish I had mod points right now. I'm not sure if your comment is better moderated as funny or insightful.. equal shots of both.
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Looks like the Arduino line can be sent to Russia, Atmega 328 at 16mhz.
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Fuck that noise. I have projects to build. They can use 8-bit PIC
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Arduino prices are already 2-3 times higher than they used to be - this is bad news for hobbyists!
I guess it's time to move on to more modern devices like ESP32 and Pi Pico. But sometimes the simple old-fashioned 5V ATMega is just easier.
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... still faster than AT&T's network in Hollywood!
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Half of my upload speed with Comcast so-called "gigabit" service in Silicon Valley.
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The 144 pins seems kind of specific, almost like they have a specific architecture in mind.
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Just a standard size for PGAs, for example. Nothing nefarious.
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The space shuttles ran on these devices although the exploded somewhat half way through their voyage.
If the use case is for Russian rockets, that fact might not be such a problem.-
Nonsense. Shuttles ran IBM AP-101 computers in a redundant structure of four machines, plus a fifth fallback with independently written code. Machine architecture was derived from System 360. Various portable/laptop machines were carried for less critical tasks that could be rerun if disrupted by radiation.
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Yes. That's how you get 5 GFLOPS out of a 25 MHz device.
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Just ban all exports of chips to Russia and Belarus period regardless of power.
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No can do. In the year of our lord 2022, you need chips for certain things like ECG machines, defibrilators, water/electricity/naturalgas SCADA sensors... You know...
Embargoing those chips would make the west seem inhuman, and galvanize the russian population around putin.
You need to embargo only chips with military applications, and those that keep the economy growing to line the pockets of the oligarchs, without leavoing the russian people without electricity gas and medical equipent/services.
PS: Living
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"Embargoing those chips would make the west seem inhuman, and galvanize the russian population around putin"
They are able to claim this is happening even if false, since they control all information available to the masses. Embargoing or not makes no difference to what the russian population knows and thinks.
I think, due to our fundamental differences, that we should avoid all trade, and not even sell them an abacus.
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Something is off here. Does not even make sense for FPGAs.
This is probably 5MFLOP. Basically an original Arduino (with an FPU added?) is the max they can get legally. Even a low low end Cortex M0 is typically 100MHz or higher.
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The worst chip shortages hitting the auto and other low-tech industries (smart light switches for example) are in chips made with much older processes - 40nm and larger features. This is going to force Russia to go back to chips made on these processes. I think a bunch of folks in the auto industry are having an oh-$#*@ moment right now.
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So, how many Arduino's does it take to make a Switchblade missile?
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Hmm... computers at 25MHz huh? I remember having one of these back in 1994.
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Russia has lots of smart engineers. I wonder if they will become a chip fabrication powerhouse in the next 10 years?
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I find this story suspect for a simple reason.
Russia is a major exporter of neon, most of it to Tiawan. No neon no chips.
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