Getting myself into a mode where I'm ready to listen. Thanks again, Derek!

I think there is a lot of truth in that. Very nicely stated. As always. C :)

Derek, I like your advice to go gentle on myself. In that spirit:

If I am here for the long haul then I surely have to listen, because there's not enough inside little timid me to make a whole artistic career out of... But if I'm out in the world listening, then yes, the friction of the real world creates more material.

I believe it's hard for anyone who's been onstage for awhile and has gotten used to having an audience...taking a step back and becoming the audience - great advice.

Oh.
*lightbulb*
Wise this is.
Do this I must.

Derek,
Thank you for sending this. It's something I've never had a problem with, I don't think so anyway. However, I know I am my own biggest critic. But it's good advice for everyone including me.
Mr. LaVerne "Lee" Smikrud

Oddly, I've never written just for me. I aim for songs that not only speak to an audience, but also speak for them, articulating emotions and experiences that people can't quite put into words for themselves.

So important to switch and listen to the other... try it at home and see the miracles happening in your relationships!

(This is also a principle in NVC = Non Violent Communication)

Reminds me of the story of Narcissus. We get caught in our own magnificence and forget there’s a world beyond the reflecting pool...

Reading this as a non-musician - I imagine musicians, while mining the intangible within to be made tangible and presented publicly, would be tuned to listening to their inner thoughts, feelings and emotions, and just as tuned in to reading your audience knowing what both you & they would naturally respond to. Are you not always, in some fashion, always listening? I would say you are, on and off the stage.
I agree with the don't broadcast your marketing approach, and market as a continuation of the connection you want to develop and encourage for authenticity.

Good point! ? But the other part of that introspective ‘all about me’ focus is what makes for good or even great artistry...and when you step away from or out of that, then you cease to create.
?
Although I’ve self-managed and marketed myself for years, I actually don’t think it’s a good way to do this - I do it out of simple necessity, not choice. As a rule it is better by far to have one person optimise their abilities in the capacity of Artiste, and another as Manager, and yet another as Marketer; otherwise, we stretch ourselves too thin. Period.
?

BALANCE is the answer.
Balancing transmit/receive functions.

This is true for live musicians.
And this is true for EVERYTHING in the universe.

BALANCE
BALANCE Transmit and Receive

i never tell the folks what my song is about. actually i love when someone comes up and tells me that song is about my wife and i.... i love that. when i look at a painting, i don't want to be told what i'm looking at. i think art belongs to the observer....

Great Derek yes! I think too it comes down to ones motive not deed. If the essence of ones art is to create to embetter the world in some way, to make the road somewhat more true perhaps beautiful then the stage is really lit but lit to the crowd.
???

This makes so much sense. And a bonus is that you start thinking about who your audience actually IS instead of who you want them to be. It's easy to confuse the two.

If I'd know this 25 years ago, it would have saved countless relationships and even dollars in therapy.

Hi Derek,

Can't wait to read your new book!

Perhaps a different perspective:
I haven't found it too hard to listen because many of the stories we tell through our music start as part of a relationship (personal or observations of others). Any relationship requires listening and comprehending what at least one other person's viewpoint is. Then, as a song writer, it's all filtered through our personal perspectives. And then the loop is completed when we perform (recorded or live) our songs.

I think we're saying the same thing(?) "...turn the spotlight on your audience, and get ready to listen" if you mean as writers, we're having a conversation.

I guess I've played on stage so long I wouldn't know how to turn spotlight on audience..I guess I need to know how to turn spotlight on audience and get true answers..Do you mean ask them how I can get my audience bigger or what would make our band better...or do you mean give them a great show so they tell more people about you...I like what you say but confused on how that helps market my band...

Thanks for sharing.
Curiously, I was thinking about the inverse of this article, "It's hard to get ON stage"

What's your advice for someone going the other direction, that is, creating something of his own rather than thinking of the other person?

The audience is only one person. Speak or play or sing for one very special person. Share who you are and let them feel what they feel.
"Life is the opportunity to love"
Love yourself Love your art
Love the audience.
Thanks Shan

Perfectly put. There was some footage of Bowie talking about being ‘all in’ when he was creating and then all about the business when he was selling.

Yeah, it's been harsh.

Some might be the audiences of themselves, but after all, we are more or less audiences.

Or maybe, it does not make differences between hearing from others or selves, since others are just another form of selves.

Unless... hmm.

anyway,

Cheer up!

We see ourselves as actors on the stage, but never view our own performance from the eyes of the audience. Seeing things from the perspective is a skill that pays off no matter who you are and what you do.

Great article Derek,
I am looking forward to reading the rest of them.
I think now more than ever is an important time to be listening .

Take Care

Robert

It's a case of flicking the personal switch from "Transmit" to "Receive".
I think the process needs to begin way before the marketing stage, the bubble that musicians tend to inhabit needs bursting on a regular basis. When I was dealing with musicians as a manager, promo guy and in A&R I always felt that pandering to the "songwriter" would eventually alienate everyone else. Open it up, not intruding on the art but making sure the artist is aware that their treasures have to become other people's treasures too.

Keep it going Derek, always good to hear from you.

Phil

I'm not sure....I think it's the right direction though. The best artists and concerts I've enjoyed are those where all the energy coming onto the stage is returned, amplified, to the audience. It's the same for me with books and even guest speakers onstage. The performer has to get themselves out of the way. I lose interest if all I see and hear is I, I, I. Humility is a much misused word, but confidence and sincerity will always shine through it they are there. After all, you're there for the audience not them for you.

I have no thought on this one.

"The essence of marketing is looking at everything from the other person’s point of view". So true.

From a musicians point of view, although im not one, once you are established as being good and your music is appreciated by the masses, it gets harder for you to listen to critisism. Listening to the audience, your paying customers (those who pay to listen to your music)is in your best interest. It would be career suicide to ignore them.

Great advice! Do you think this also applies to group musicians? As a jazz musician, I found it less of a problem because I was always playing in groups with different types of musicians at different levels. I found this helped me to stay grounded and open to feedback. I wonder if a solo artist could do the same by collaborating with other musicians from time to time to collect their feedback. It could help them stay grounded, especially if they choose people more skilled or just different from them.

"Have some compassion...", one of the most important points on the moral compass. I wonder if there's a reason compass and compassion share so many letters.

Love this!!!

Your so right! Most musicians do not even like the marketing side of the business but all want to sell thier music. Trying to get them to look at thier selves from a customer side of the business is like pulling teeth. Too scary for them!

Well said Derek. I appreciate your observations and insights. They are always helpful. I think that I'm not in the main bracket for this one because i didn't approach music with that intense desire to get my feelings out. For me it was more a matter of, had to do something for a living and music was what appealed to me most. As far as composer/songwriting - the music ideas just flowed and trying sell it to audiences was more of an after though. I agree that being able to see the other side is important - not just for marketing.

Hey Derek, I think that you are onto an important concept for the indie musician who has to do it all. I assume that the 4 step process listed above could be some type of mental exercise or ritual to help the artist focus. Do you know any techniques or have pointers to any authors or books that you think can help the artist?

All true. Most musicians fail to see they are in a service industry. The one that provides the best service will be successful.

Easy to get lost when you are too close to your art/music masterpiece. I recommend a few days off and then a fresh look or fresh listen from a different perspective. Such as go jogging and listen in the park on headphones to your latest mix ! Or play it to a friend .. or in the car .. you will always hear it differently. Always dictaphone ideas on iPhone smart phone and listen back in a different place.

Scott at comment #30, I think you are right that a solo artist could learn from group work. Certainly the rich-enough-to-retire Hollywood actors keep returning to the legitimate theatre to sharpen their craft between movies.

As well, actors try to be in the real world so they can learn... To me the metaphor "turn the spotlight on the audience" does not just mean sitting in the house for a musician's performance, but mingling like a humble spy in real life.

Come to think of it, to the discipline of a composer studying a composition again every year, a novelist returning to study the same classic every year, a performer could do a yearly shut down of the broadcast mode, and just move about on standby listening mode—and taking whatever time is needed to get into understanding standby mode, as it won't be the default.

I like the title; I like the sentiments you are broadcasting here. Acknowledging the inherent 'self-centredness' of performing one's craft is good. May I suggest sharing your experience and learning process in 'getting off the stage', which will help your readers connect to what you are saying.

Thanks!
Saskia

Humbly I say that's not me, but I can see the downfall. I always try to listen first.

I agree with most of what is said here. I believe that the one way road comment, for me, is actually a two way road. From Artist to audience and then back again. In a feedback loop. As artists we are complex creatures who require some form of validation. No art is made in a vacuum. What is the point, especially in music, to create art if you are not willing to share it? There are of course exceptions to any conjecture. Thanks for your wisdom Derek; it is always thought provoking.

Creativity is what it simply is. like the chicken and egg debate, the need for validation of our artistic side spurs us to the stage, whilst the possibilities intrinsic of the "stage" enables us mine our creative juices to ensure only the best of our creativity is given on the stage. But should it stop at the stage ? or the idea fountain ? No. it cant and should not stop there. Marketing of these entwined relationship of the "stage" and "artistic" creativity should always be made to ride on the carriage of Marketing. The best of us will have to learn and master the art of blending all these three elements to remain truly "creative"

This great, much-needed advice. Like, I tell my wife i want hot women at my show to attract a dozen men with $ apiece, but she believes it's all ego. It's only part. And your point re getting OFF that is food for thought. The book title: too long. Best, and thanks!

Without digging deeply inside oneself, one cannot create something touching. and marketing your music, you need listen, to switch your direction, to know what your audience really want. After reading this, I find that being a musician is not as so cool as I supposed to. They make a lot of money and people like them, buy tickets and go to their concerts. but they also have done a lot of work before to get these rewards.

This is so very true

you are talking about marketing , means how to sell production to custom,is it all right?
I think what you say is common at many profession. such as engineers, they usually focus on technology many years .they seldom care about market, so they may not sell to others well.

Thank you Derek! Its good to hear from you. I always value your thoughts and look forward to your emails. Fortunately, as a singer songwriter, I love marketing too. Where I need to improve is on the computer side of things. Again, thanks so much!
Arthur

Plus to be surprised because people won't always hear what you think & thats great isn't it - the question being do you want your audience to be full Mirrors or Windows?

Lyrics to a song I wrote: "We plant the seed to harvest, water it to grow, when it comes time for the increase we know God's in control; He's the one who really knows, how much we need in our lives each day, so even if we don't see a thing, we know He's working anyway." The name of the song is: "Keep Self Out Of The Way"
YES;Just step back and listen! Good insight Derek!

Derek, this is an interesting discussion.

Self awareness is vital. Whether in music or business, we all want our output/song/product or service to be accepted. That takes the willingness to proactively listen and take action based on what you hear.

There's another side of that coin, though. To paraphrase Henry Ford, if he had listened to what the people wanted he would have built them a faster horse.

As an amateur musician, I have found it's important to hear everyone, but only listen to some. Because no matter how talented you are, someone's going to hate your work. The Beatles are arguably the best and most famous musical group ever, but there are still a ton of people who don't like their music (or so I'm told, I try not to talk to those people). Taking everyone's opinion to heart is a losing battle.

The key is knowing whom to listen to.

www.brianrollo.com

Yup, for me it's a very difficult thing to do because my music can be very dark, intense, and aggressive so when people who aren't from the market I'm presenting to ask about my music I'm afraid to show them due to the reaction I'd most likely face. I'm overall a nice and gentle person but my music is where I can fully let loose and speak in metaphors, extremities, and my deepest issues. To quote Henry Rollins "What's always tripped out girls I've been out with is when they've never been to a show before and then they go, and then they're like 'I had no idea, I had no idea you were like that, I had no idea you had this whole thing going on, ugh really nice meeting you...bye'"....Yup, I totally identify with a lot of what Rollins says.

Always respect your audience. Unless you are Don Rickles, it's very hard to win people over by being insulting and condescending. And yes, sometimes we all have to "suffer fools gladly", like the fellow who wants to have a converstaion with you while you are performing. ("Sure, yes, of course, I have two mouths, so I can sing this tune and talk to you about your career as a great karaoke singer at the same time.")

I’ve always found it helpful to sit back and say” if I were sitting in the audience, what do I want to hear and feel and enjoy at this show/ on this CD” ...After releasing my CDs and after live gigs I have often reached out to friends and fans / audiences encouraging feedback on which songs they resonated the most with, what they would have liked me to add to or take out of the show, (a different genre, style, topic, an audience singalong). Listening to the audience has definitely had me grow as an artist and performer and added many more dimensions to my writing and set lists. I was once asked by a press interviewer if I have ever written a political song, given I’m from South Africa.... No, I hadn’t ... made me stop and think.... so I stepped outside of my usual style and focus, and dig deeper to create an uptempo song about Mandela and the heart and hope of the children/ people in the early post apartheid years- with a chorus that every audience easily and willingly belts out in every show- enjoyment all round!! Listening is good! Always good!

Yeah, it is something to think about, really sometime you got to think out your box.

Derek,

Some artists never get this or don't want to get this or won't be good at it, but should certainly acknowledge it and do the best they can! I've been poor at it and some of this is believing in yourself and your art and knowing people with like the work you do. I think that prevents a lot of artists to promote themselves and put their work out there more then they don't understand why they have to market. Getting feedback and listening is instrumental (no pun) in an artists life and you often here of success stories of folks who describe their family and friends and associates providing that support and constant input. We all wish we had that, but the marketing to your audience and receiving that some input is invaluable.

I am not a vocalist, instrumental only, adjust the program as the guests and event unfold. Relax post event ,play some Billiards,Snooker ,Nine ball.

I disagree that it's you, you you going outward. One of my lifelong favorite singer songwriters receives as much as she gives during a concert. It energizes both her and the audience. I can "feel" the difference between her performances and others.

Wise words, Derek ... as always. ☺

This can be a problem for sure. I learned this a long way back how to take off one hat to put on another hat for which ever form of business I was working on at that time. It is hard for musicians and fine artist to switch to the grinding marketing and files you need to keep.

Derek,
This is why I left music. Spending one's life focused on getting all eyes on self proved to be a miserable existence.
You write "The essence of marketing is looking at everything from the other person’s point of view." My experience was that music marketing, especially in the age of social media, is to flat out get attention (and that became a very gross exercise for me).
Would love more of your thoughts on this necessary self-focus for art and yet the destructive force that that can be (especially for artists, ironically :).

There are three types of people who won't buy your music....family, close friends and other musicians. Your sentence; "Because of this, it's hard for musicians to turn that off, switch directions and just listen to others", amplifies the reason why musicians DON'T buy other musicians' music. That was really well said....wish I had thought of it.

My brother is a musician , funny that you sent these, as he is trying to re market himself. He is an excellent song writer , thanks for the update
Diane

Its been pointed out to me that I'm akin to Jekyll and Hyde. Not for the idea of good & evil, but instead that I'm very mild off-stage and very outgoing and often extemporaneous on-stage.

It might be better to think the reverse of your theory; to be mild mannered in life and then flip the switch to the broadcast mode only when hitting the stage.

This is great. So true. Short and to the point.

Very interesting point that marketing is actually kind of empathetic (potentially) despite its reputation. It's a practice in perspective taking I guess

Excellent

Having compassion for your situation is a key concept. I am glad you mention it :). As someone that often has an easier time broadcasting myself than listening to others, this was critical to grasp to begin to change it.