Apple Makes Plans to Move Production Out of China - Slashdot
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Apple Makes Plans to Move Production Out of China
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Apple Makes Plans to Move Production Out of China (livemint.com) 91
Posted by EditorDavid
on Sunday December 04, 2022 @03:34AM from the thinking-different dept.
The Wall Street Journal reports:
In recent weeks, Apple Inc. has accelerated plans to shift some of its production outside China, long the dominant country in the supply chain that built the world's most valuable company, say people involved in the discussions. It is telling suppliers to plan more actively for assembling Apple products elsewhere in Asia, particularly India and Vietnam, they say, and looking to reduce dependence on Taiwanese assemblers led by Foxconn Technology Group.
Turmoil at a place called iPhone City helped propel Apple's shift. At the giant city-within-a-city in Zhengzhou, China, as many as 300,000 workers work at a factory run by Foxconn to make iPhones and other Apple products. At one point, it alone made about 85% of the Pro lineup of iPhones, according to market-research firm Counterpoint Research. The Zhengzhou factory was convulsed in late November by violent protests.... Coming after a year of events that weakened China's status as a stable manufacturing center, the upheaval means Apple no longer feels comfortable having so much of its business tied up in one place, according to analysts and people in the Apple supply chain....
One response, say the people involved in Apple's supply chain, is to draw from a bigger pool of assemblers — even if those companies are themselves based in China. Two Chinese companies that are in line to get more Apple business, they say, are Luxshare Precision Industry Co. and Wingtech Technology Co.... Apple's longer-term goal is to ship 40% to 45% of iPhones from India, compared with a single-digit percentage currently, according to Ming-chi Kuo, an analyst at TF International Securities who follows the supply chain. Suppliers say Vietnam is expected to shoulder more of the manufacturing for other Apple products such as AirPods, smartwatches and laptops.
For now, consumers doing Christmas shopping are stuck with some of the longest wait timesfor high-end iPhones in the product's 15-year history, stretching until after Christmas.... Accounts vary about how many workers are missing from the Zhengzhou factory, with estimates ranging from the thousands to the tens of thousands. Mr. Kuo said it was running at only about 20% capacity in November, a figure expected to improve to 30% to 40% in December.
Foxconn says it accounted for 3.9% of China's exports in 2021, the Journal points out.
Yet "A survey by the U.S.-China Business Council this year found American companies' confidence in China has fallen to a record low, with about a quarter of respondents saying they have at least temporarily moved parts of their supply chain out of China over the past year."
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by rlwinm ( 6158720 ) on Sunday December 04, 2022 @03:55AM (#63100928)
Why Asia? How about the US, Canada, and Western Europe? This seems like it still keeps China involved.-
Apple can't manufacture here: their markup would go from 10,000% to only 500%. They need wage slaves for their business model to survive.
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In other words, Apple needs slave wages.
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ok, so it is about slave wages.
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You can automate pretty much every step of the assembly process by spending more money on both design and parts. If you use a human to fill in the parts that are expensive to do well with a robot, then you also don't have to design to as fine a tolerance — cheap flexible circuits have more of it than the expensive tiny connectors (with or without expensive tiny cables) that you would otherwise use, so you're saving on both ends (in the phone example.)
But yeah, nobody wants to pay shit in this country
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Sure, US has it so much better, than most of the countries, even developed ones. It is just that outsourcing had its hidden expense, which becomes uncovered, once you want to reverse. It was not far-sighted to depend on fusion-communist China. In an attempt to diversify it should be considered last by now.
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by AleRunner ( 4556245 ) on Sunday December 04, 2022 @07:07AM (#63101136)
Perhaps, in stead of asking themselves why Apple isn't making phones in the USA, people should be asking themselves why is the entire industrial base needed to make iPhones (including all the necessary components) in the USA basically dead and why are there basically only (what is it now?) three American smartphone makers of any note left on the American market. But hey, I must be unfairly #victimising the USA here because everybody knows the USA is unquestionably greatest country in on the planet and unquestionably best at everything?... right?
Generally love your point, but it's important to say that Apple and their ilk have a definite responsibility here. Skills grow up for the jobs people can get. If Apple moved factories back and sustained them in the USA then the supply chains would come back. The entire US (and UK - our problems are perhaps worse than yours) oligarch class, including Steve Jobs and Tim Cook has insisted on the idea of outsourcing and removing trade barriers in order to reduce the negotiating power of US and UK workers. If, instead, they had insisted on measuring human rights and charging tariffs based on human rights and environmental concerns then the effect could easily have been to bring up standards in places like China and India rather than bringing down the standards in the US and UK.
Even the so called "left" parties in the UK and USA are fundamentally Reaganomic/Thatcherite stooges and that is driven by the huge huge amounts of money that large corporations and their owners are allowed to push into politics. There just does have to be a program to partially reverse what has happened whilst also supporting production in more democratic countries with true freedom of speech in Asia and Africa and these companies should be expected to pay for that.
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As long as 'ilk' means the entire rest of the industry I would most agree with that. This problem cannot be solved simply by hating Apple, it is much, much, much bigger than that.
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Certainly the FAANGs and anyone included in the various conspiracies to reduce worker benefits in the US. I don't want to quite agree with the "whole industry" since at times there have been some companies that stood up against employee reductions and there are still a few companies deliberately producing in both the UK and USA, but I can guess that I'd include more than 95% of employers and probably more than 97% of employment with the good companies more likely to be small and local.
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There's a shortage of tool and die makers in the USA because this isn't necessarily true. The employers sometimes have to take steps to promote education in fields in which they need workers.
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Back in the old days, employers used to train their own workforces and then attempt to retain them long term whilst providing ongoing education in order to keep their skills without expecting to be able to just fire them now and then pick up a new one in a couple of months when needed. At will employment is not exactly a demand that workers have been making and so my sympathy for the poor employers who now find themselves with "skills shortages" is somewhat limited.
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Well, that's my point. Companies are crying about how people don't have these skills, but they're not doing anything substantive to get people into those careers. If they want those people to exist, they have to help create them, and they're not willing to do that.
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Agreed. It's more profitable to ship the work overseas. It's similar in healthcare. There's no reason we should be importing doctors. The reality is more people want to study medicine than there are places, and it's cheaper to import staff than to invest in giving people access to these careers.
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When employers try to do something, like various tech companies providing "learn to code" material for schools, they get accused of trying to create a pool of cheap labour and tying children into their products.
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They don't need to design any programs at that level, they can simply fund general shop classes that can help identify candidates for the relevant college-level courses that people aren't taking.
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So what exactly is your objection, that they are wasting their own money giving free education to children?
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You lost the thread, dude. Go find it on your own time, and leave me out of it. I didn't say what you seem to think I said. That shit is going around, you might want to have it checked out.
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True, and they don't want to pay any taxes, not that this is an issue because they already pay no effective taxes. Meanwhile the hobby of the owners of these companies is to finance dumb-fuck politicians out to stultify the population by purging anything except bible studies from the nation's schools because things like evolution, biology, chemistry, science, technology, engineering, and mathematics are 'woke' and people who know anything about them are 'intellectual elites' hellbent tyrannising god fearing
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Apple was one of the last companies to leave US manufacturing. They manufactured around the world - in the 90s they had manufacturing plants in Cork, Ireland, Singapore (main Asian production facility) and US. Of course, in the 90s we also know that Apple was in dire straits and while production of everything else has been streamlined to Asia (China), Apple was still using outdated factories around the world.
China was offering a lot of incentives to companies to invest, especially during the mid-90's econom
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Well said; I wholeheartedly concur.
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Perhaps, in stead of asking themselves why Apple isn't making phones in the USA, people should be asking themselves why is the entire industrial base needed to make iPhones (including all the necessary components) in the USA basically dead and why are there basically only (what is it now?) three American smartphone makers of any note left on the American market.
So here's a data point relevant to that specific ask:
One of my various business projects is selling small blank PCBs that implement things such as l
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Another reason is that the US market for smartphones isn't growing. Everyone already has one and sales are just replacements now. So most of the iPhones made in the US would be exported, which means dealing with export tariffs and restrictions, as well as the higher costs of shipping stuff within the US.
The nightmare scenario would be if the US government decides that some technology in the iPhone can't be exported.
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Not true I know several people who have been android since day one, who are switching to iPhone this month.
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Sure, and the 3 friends you have are representative of the entire industry
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Of course, there are people going the other way. I started with iPhones and gradually switched to android.
At work, I started using windows and, as awful as it is, a Chromebook. That meant that I was no longer in the "Apple" environment. Further, android phones were so much less expensive. It just made sense for me. It is likely that when I retire, which isn't that far off, I will return to the apple universe. But then, I may decide to go all Linux.
No matter what the driver is, people switch in both d -
Only because Apple is making phones so inoperable between devices they are all but forcing people to switch
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The numbers I've seen don't fit that claim if no growth. Do you have a source that points towards a sustained decline, not just blips during COVID?
Also, replacements are sales. The US is Apple's single largest market for iPhones. It'd be difficult to believe manufacturing in the US would be reliant on exporting. The main challenge is more likely supply of components and cost.
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Apple can't manufacture here: their markup would go from 10,000% to only 500%.
If it takes any substantial amount of human labor time to assemble an iPhone then Foxconn is even more incompetent than I thought. Most steps should be done by machine by now, basically everything but putting in screws (way too delicate to be done by machine without constant adjustment and calibration) and connecting the shitty little cables.
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I didn't say robots can't turn screws. Try learning to read, kiddo.
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Doh, got hit with the sock puppet, (-1, triggered an idiot) mod.
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They might could move to North America if they automate more
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Chinese technicians are much cheaper.
And cheaper manufacturing robots come from China, close to parts and expertise.
(The USA specializes in $$$ military robots.)
Look at how China disassembles dead ships -- cranes and heavy equipment. Not hundreds of disposable human ants like they do in Bangladesh.
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Because Labor rules in Asia are invisible, and can be offloaded to another entity to take any blame. However moving to.vn is not so good, because their costs are also up 20%. India makes a lot of sense, but it will take 10 years to ramp things up - or more. The wages in Romania or one of the 'stans' is not so much. One downside to India, is its tax dept may catch out dishonest practices. I fondly remember the 70's in USA where HP always made the prototypes in the US. The question is how many minutes of hum
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How about a 3.7 unemployment rate ajd not enough people to fill available jobs. How about the fact the average fast joint is filled not with teenagers but semi retired folk?
25+ years of kicking the majority of immigrants to the curb has hurt this country badly. And yes despite what republicans say obama and biden have kept up the kicking out of immigrants by the millions..
It is like these people never went to an itialian deli run by a husband and wife who barely spoke english but raised their kids here.
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We could easily make the illegal immigrants legal, but that's not going to happen because then we can't exploit their situation. This is exactly why neither party can seem to fix our "border crisis".
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Sure, makes sense, let's make everyone on the planet legal and hey since they're here let's let them vote, too.
Good idea.
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It actually is a good idea. Welcoming people and helping them to be productive members of your society... what's wrong with that?
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A lot is wrong with that. A country is borders, language and culture. Take one away and you just have a random mish mash of nothing worth having. You think if we took in, say, 50m random people a year the country would survive? Living standards would remain? There'd be jobs, food, housing and water for everyone?
And who exactly do you think is helping the millions coming in right now to become productive members of society? No one.
Cross the border, get picked up, get a court date, go free, ignore court
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Thank you!!! Out of all the posts, yours is the closest, spot on reason why Apple mfg isn't moving to the US. People don't understand that the US is the 2nd or 3rd mfg in the world. In some measures, we are right behind China in % of global production! And we have 1/4 their population! Our mfg "capacity" is not only maxed out, it's over stretched. Even if we had 15% unemployment, we still wouldn't have the resources to supply the Apple supply chain with the labor pool they need to meet the global dema
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How young are you? Ronald Reagan's 1986 amnesty bill [wikipedia.org] was 36 years ago, changing decades-old rules for illegal immigration and adding new amnesties. And even then, immigration hawks (correctly) predicted that it would not stop, or even significantly reduce, illegal entry or over-stays.
And maybe you remember some politician who recently wanted to build a wall to limit illegal entry to the US. It has been tried, but a lot of people who apparently want drugs and exploitable labor in the US went absolutely ap
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First, let's use proper terms. "Illegal immigrant" is not a thing. It's just an emotional label people keep using to make themselves feel better about treating others sub-human. Congratulations. The nearest situation is someone already on the ban list and re-enters the US knowing they would fail border control. People running around without proper paper work are just that; not "illegal". They are guilty of being illegal when they get their day in court and finds such and lists them for deportation. You ma
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First, read the comment you respond to. I never wrote "illegal immigrant", you talkiing-point troll. There are lots of ways to illegally immigrate to a country -- and re-entry after being deported is only one way. One might lie when entering, enter without inspection, or over-stay a legitimate visa. All of them except the last one are illegal ways to enter the country.
The law doesn't work like you claim. A crime occurs when the predicate acts occur, not when a court rules that it was a crime. Similarl
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Holy crap your post is clueless.
No. Our manufacturing capacity has reduced over time while our population has increased.
... 15% of the 207million working age people in the USA is about 30 million people. You didn't think this through in the slightest. For the record the iPhone is manufactured at a Foxconn city with 200000 workers, less than 1/100th of what you talk about, and above all manufacturing in the USA wouldn't be done by as much labour since labour there is expensive, so divide that number by 10 ag
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Oh I forgot that the US had a giant gum ball machine in the center with all the people seeking work in one place. That we had teleportation tech that can zoom 5000 people to any 10 acre plot that factory pops up at. That we can build 2500 homes around that factory on a 100 mi area overnight. That we had extra dock cranes and empty trucks with drivers in deep sleep in their cabs waiting for work.
(Face palm)
A factory just doesn't poop out iPhones because you drop a building, some equipment, and workers som
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All the arguments you make about lack of logistics, suppliers, etc. in the US are true in whatever alternative country Apple may choose to transfer production to. In fact, they are probably worse, with the one exception of availability of unskilled labor.
So, the real reason to not move production back to the USA is the obvious one: cost of labor.
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You are talking about a short term issue rather than a long term one. Things such as low unemployment or skills shortages come and go in waves. Things such as high standard of living, workers rights, and minimum wages however tend to stay. It's a far bigger issue than a short term skills gap.
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Lol what? What majority of immigrants?
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I strongly disagree. For the first time in a long, long time (ever?), employees have been treated as something resembling actual people. The fewer people in the workforce, the better we are treated. The more people in the workforce, the worse we are treated. Campaigning for increased immigration is slitting your own throat.
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India now has cheaper labour than coins China, which is the real reason they are moving
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Because labor. There is nowhere in developed world where you could find 300k production line workers in once place. In developed world you would need even more because workers certainly aren't about to live on campus, do 996 and accept holding it as a viable alternative to toilet breaks.
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by GeLeTo ( 527660 ) on Sunday December 04, 2022 @04:05AM (#63100934)
This should have happened long ago. Not because of a factory turmoil, but because a conflict with USA is inevitable and every company that keeps all it's eggs in one basket is going to suffer. The Chinese are very aggressive in South China Sea, claiming territory that belongs to a bunch of nations, thousands of kilometers away from China. And of course there is Taiwan.-
Erm
They are in no way moving away from China. They are just removing physical production from the country. If anything, Apple's ties with Chinese companies will deepen due to this.
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Come at me, China
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Is English not your first language, or did you just skip over the portions I quoted? They are moving their production away from Taiwan-based Foxconn to two mainland-based companies. Even if production is physically done elsewhere in the region, they are giving more control and profit to Chinese interests. Is that unclear to you? Let me simplify:
This happen
China get more business
China still make shiny boxes for Apple
Ooga ooga!
Did I break that down enough, or was that still too many syllables?
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This should have happened long ago. Not because of a factory turmoil, but because of fucking slavery.
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Apple moving a bit is going to be of no help at all, if China pulls a Russia then world supply chains are going to be beyond fucked, manufacturing of absolutely everything everywhere stops indefinitely. Worse, because if they do it they are likely to do it via attacking Taiwan which means bye-bye to modern electronics manufacturing for a decade all on it's own even without the political and economic consequences to China.
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Santa Claus in various forms pre-dates our era by centuries, at least.
Sadly, the Coca Cola corporation has convinced you they created a multi national and very old cultural icon.
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Jesus was a historical figure as far as historians and archaeologists can determine. I don't believe some Jewish rabbi wandered around creating miracles but it's pretty certain there was a Jewish rabbi wandering pissing off the powers that be.
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I said fictional holy man. As a holy man, he was completely fictional. As a religious nutcase followed by a bunch of other nutcases, he was totally real. Like the dozens of other mystics [wikipedia.org] roaming the general area at the time.
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Which holy men do you think are non-fiction?
Don't be Schroeder's Asshole.
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Quick make a run for it! We don't want workers to have rights & humane working conditions. Our shareholders would never forgive us.
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Exactly. They are leaving China because the quality of life and wages that Chinese people expect are getting too high. They need to manufacture in countries with lower standards, where things like deadly diseases are not a reason to shut the factory down for a week, and iPhone factory line worker is an aspirational job.
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Yes, they need to manufacture in countries where slavery, serfdom, organ harvesting, government sponsored mass rape and cultural genocide aren't normal and accepted everyday official government policy.
FTFY.
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Does US college football cheerleader teams count as govt sponsored mass rape?
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Oh yeah, & the USA still has slavery in its constitution, right? As for actual genocide & slavery on an industrial scale, you don't have to go too far back in US history, do you? There are some US politicians & their followers who still claim that US slavery wasn't all that bad. And we all seem to be fine with FIFA building their stadiums with slave labour in Qatar. But don't say anything about that - We wouldn't want a few facts to get in the way of our sports enjoyment, would we? And how about
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I'm opposed to all forms of slavery, everywhere. If they used slaves to build a sports stadium then we should have not gone there or allowed American construction to get involved.
Which war of aggression? The "Bad Wars" in Iraq, the "Good War" in Afghanistan, the proxy war against Russia? Or maybe you mean the endless military and cia black ops?
Because depending on which one you mean and which phase you'd be right or wrong or somewhat right/wrong. Details matter.
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Take your pick. Whichever ones you want. The point is that we, in the west/NATO pact, can't really go pointing fingers at other countries' moral standards. BTW, Ukraine is a war of aggression by the Russian govt, pure & simple. Whatever the west did to try to provoke Putin & his kleptocratic supporters, he shouldn't ever have had the move of "war of aggression" in his playbook. That was just asking to be provoked & like an idiot he walked right into it. Not the brightest gangster in the Kremlin.
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Sure we can point fingers. We don't need a perfect record to point out someone else runs a big chunk of their economy on slavery.
By that standard we should disband our justice system because no judge, juror, cop, witness or prosecutor is free of sin.And at some point we have to say, "that was the past, we are different now", if we are. Germany isn't a Nazi state, for example and isn't treated as a pariah. The British gave up their colonies long ago. Slavery ended in the US with the civil war. And so on
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Your logic, not mine, & I'm not defending anyone. I'm simply criticising the foundation upon which European colonialism rests; exceptionalism. It's OK that we do it, & continue to do it (For example, we're all still helping the Israeli govt to colonise Palestine & helping Saudi Arabian govt to commit just about every war crime & crime against humanity in the book against the Yemeni people) because we're doing it for "good reasons." The USA & UK withdrew their occupation of Afghanistan la
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What is your definition of the borders of Palestine?
Saudi Arabia: that is pure power politics. When they finally run out of oil they'll suddenly be enemy #1 if they keep that up. We need them more than they need us.
Afghanistan: the UK has a military? Not just the guys in the big funny hats around the palace? *boggle* Anyway, the US stopped fighting there years ago. We provided support and there wasn't an American death there for 18 months before we fled. I don't think we should have been there in the
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It isn't working conditions China is rioting for, it's because pooh completely screwed it up with zero covid policy. Chinese will tolerate a lot, but if you lock them up in a factory and forget to feed them, even the Chinese will riot.
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Apple: "Oh No, trouble is stirring in China... Hey China, look at me walking towards the door, very slowly..."
China: "Stay with us, Apple, please, here, have some bribes/tax breaks!"
Apple: "We reluctantly accept (wink wink), China, we're friends again."
Chinese workers: "What about us?"
Apple: "LALALA we can't hear you, assemble iphones and shut up, we'll just install some more anti-suicide measures!"And nothing changed.
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...so the company has to move its sweatshops to a place where slaves are more docile.
And these are the "progressive" companies. Imagine the regressive ones.-
This is exactly what apple will do, no matter what the apple worshipping shills on here blather on about. And apple will make some other back door deal with China to keep the money flowing in from that country. apple has bever stood up to China, money will never be able to buy apple a backbone.
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The impact of this one company whose products don't even number that many in ComputerTechWorld is still a mystery to me.
Their personal Jesus isn't even alive anymore, and he died needlessly because he was an overbearing idiot.
They don't even innovate. Mostly they just take what others have built, snap on some proprietary crap and add 500% markup or however they feel.
"Hey, guys! We just reinvented the wheel! Except, you need to buy our car to use them, and fill them with our air, and if you run over a nail,
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Note that Foxconn makes a LOT more than just Apple products
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Crimea a river. Poor poor Apple.
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Apple is popular for religious reasons. These days, most things are determined by religion, much like in the Dark Ages. In this case, it Appleonianism. There are other religions also, such a Climatism.
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Yes, I've been pondering that question. Something seems wrong there. Where oh where is automation?
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In completely unrelated news, the Chinese started to remove COVID testing sites today.
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