Bosses Don't Follow Their Own Advice In Returning To the Office
source link: https://it.slashdot.org/story/22/04/19/2045205/bosses-dont-follow-their-own-advice-in-returning-to-the-office
Go to the source link to view the article. You can view the picture content, updated content and better typesetting reading experience. If the link is broken, please click the button below to view the snapshot at that time.
Bosses Don't Follow Their Own Advice In Returning To the Office
Please create an account to participate in the Slashdot moderation system
binspamdupenotthebestofftopicslownewsdaystalestupid
freshfunnyinsightfulinterestingmaybe
offtopicflamebaittrollredundantoverrated
insightfulinterestinginformativefunnyunderrated
The gap points to a double standard in back-to-office messaging: executives, from Bank of America Corp. to Alphabet Inc.'s Google, urge their workers to return in part to increase face-to-face collaboration, but the bosses themselves are somewhat exempt. Companies are also trying to justify long-term office leases or state-of-the-art locations like Apple Park in Cupertino, California. [...] As the back-to-office policy debate evolves, Future Forum recommends flexible schedules and location to retain top talent, even if it means breaking cultural traditions and developing new workflows. "People being in the office gives the illusion of control, but it's just an illusion," [Brian Elliott, executive director of Future Forum] said. "It doesn't mean they're being productive."
-
›
-
Some bosses want their employees back in the office.
Some bosses work from home.
TFA provides no evidence that both cases are the same bosses.
-
This is about the pre-covid number, so why is it a surprise now?
-
someone has to keep those golf courses in business...
-
Far be it for me to defend the hypocrisy of the corporate ruling class, but this is the explanation that needs to be ruled out before I can decide how hypocritical this really is.
My former employer had hundreds of sites in the US, and thousands more outside of the country. The CEO of the US subsidiary also served on the board of the global parent company which was headquartered in Europe. That meant, despite being situated on the same floor, I saw him physically in the office maybe a dozen times a year. I
-
-
-
-
Yep, somebody trying to drum up anger because 35% of workers are onsite.
Guess what? Some people need to he on-site.
Some because their job requires it - you can't replace a hard drive remotely. Others because home isn't a nice quiet place to be productive.As it turns out, executives are somewhat less likely to need to actually put their hands on the equipment. Shocking. I'm suitably angry.
They are also slightly more likely to have space for a home office. Again, I'm shocked and greatly angered by this.
-
The executives are also a lot more likely to be travelling meeting with investors, large customers, important suppliers, visiting different company sites, etc. Just because they're not in their office does not mean they're flouting their own rules and working from home.
-
-
Sadly Schmoozing is a necessary evil. I have seen some great products that had no sales force behind, build it and they will come (according to engineers) but how long will it take, get a great schmoozer and you can be a great company quickly without them your less capable competitors will see your idea and run with it selling it before they even have a product and your company will languish and die slowly as the customers wait for the competitors promise
-
Not sure what company you have worked for. But schmoozing most definitely is part of the companies records and expense reports where I work. Hell I even need to document who was there and if they were gov employees and how much was spent on each et c to ensure we aren't breaching any gifting laws etc
-
Honestly, this is a part of my job as a boss that I hate with passion. I work for a company that does a lot of software for casinos and similar and I hate travelling to see my clients. This whole casino thing is so overrated, especially once you know how it actually works, but it is unavoidable. Yes, I do charge my company for number of things like dinners with clients and similar, but nobody wants me to pay for it out of my own pocket. It isn't as glamorous as some people think and you get tired of it
-
-
-
Executives are unlikely to do anything that resembles actual work.
-
I switched back to technical work because I find it much less tiring. Upper management work is draining, to me.
-
Absolutely. Management work is just horrible stuff. Always some new way to push information around and present it differently, without actually accomplishing anything useful.
Worse than that really. Most of what I had to do in management was getting in the way of things I actually needed done. -
Having to remove your soul for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week is pretty tiring.
-
-
Anything that resembles actual work can be outsourced.
That is not where value is created.
For example, Apple is the most valuable company in the history of the world, yet they manufacture nothing. Apple employees just quietly sit at their desks.
-
-
Some people need to be on site, others want to be, but we're seeing the rules being applied with broad brushstrokes and everyone within a particular group is told to return, regardless of whether it makes sense.
-
-
Yay for another day of hyperbole on/. regarding working from home.
Are you angry yet slashdotters? Are you?
Companies like Google have bosses pushing RTO hard. Many banks and Wall Street companies? Even if you aren't a trader they still push RTO. A lot of companies with big offices seem to be pushing RTO very hard. That's on top of mayors in some cities. I wonder why they are pushing so hard?
Companies like Google, and many others, have a LOT of expensive office space that is sitting fallow. Unfortunately, even if it's just a triple-net lease, you still need to pay the utilities / taxes / maintenance for those facilities. They saw plenty of Wall Street money fleeing commercial REITs and buying up single family housing. What do the REITs know, or what are some betting on, in the future? They're betting RTO is D-E-A-D and commercial real estate is going to stay low.
Many office facilities for lease near me, some very nice offices, have been vacant for a while now. More than a few, some very nice ones in good locations, have become auction sales. Yeah, it's that bad.
That's why some people are freaking the -expletive- out. How much money does Google, and many other companies, have tied up in real estate?-
Google owns $40B in real estate, about 2% of its market capitalization.
-
-
yet?
When have the people here NOT been foaming at the mouth angry about literally any article posted?
-
-
With the right investment, the towers full of cubical or open office plans are now obsolete monuments to managerial emotional needs. They are used to stroke egos from top to bottom of the corporates ladder and paperless is the secure way to work.
For the individual, the commute is a waste of time, the energy and governmental investment of the commute is just a waste for society. Go in to work to meet your peers about 3 times a month, cancel if the weather is bad, have lunch, elbow up to vendors and for the rest of the month...GTFO and put in just 8 hours as requested being exactly what is impossible to automate.-
Full remote work means a ripe opportunity to outsource overseas. There's plenty of people willing to be awake during US business hours and speak English fluently. Be careful what you wish for.
-
Full remote work means a ripe opportunity to outsource overseas.
There are, at least, a couple things wrong with that:
1) We tried it for decades. It seemed great (for the corporate overlords) in the beginning, but then came back to bite those same companies in the ass. It turns out that you get low quality work when you hire cheap labor. It caused a lot of short-sighted companies to collapse under the weight of their incompetence.
2) For countries on a more-or-less even keeling, they end up hiring each other's labor. They then realize that the local worker is just as good (or better) than the foreign worker. Hiring foreign workers is just an exercise in unnecessary complexity.
If the best thing you bring to the table is proximity, then it's understandable that you would be worried. If you have useful skills, then the outsourcing threat is minimal to none.
-
-
And everything to do with property values. Work from home is a double whammy. First commercial real estate drops in value because of fewer renters and then people take those office buildings and convert them into high rise apartments causing the cost of housing to go down.
A lot of folks wondered how the rich were going to stay rich since gen Z doesn't have any money to spend keeping the economy functional. The solution is easy, what was the phrase? You'll learn nothing and like it. That last part was a lie and you'll be paying 2/3 of your income to rent a single small room that you share with three other people.-
So your theory is that the local IT company is part of a nation wide (global wide?) cabal to inflate commercial real estate prices and keep down the poor? You do realize companies save money by not paying rent?
-
-
I know of a tech company where the CEO lives more than two hours from the (small) regional office. Said CEO resists remote hires and has lied to employees about why. Moreover, most hires are constrained to one of two campuses in another state entirely.
And they wonder daily why they aren't receiving many applications.
-
-
my desk has been taken. they don't want me back. i remote in to check the backups at 6am. smoke a few bongs at 9. drink a six pack between lunch and 4.30, have something to eat, crack a bottle of shiraz and clock off around 9pm. it's fucking glorious. thanks covid.
-
Jesus, no wonder they didn't want you around anymore.
-
sounds like they're trying to maintain this condition.
https://xkcd.com/323/ [xkcd.com]
-
-
Man, I guess enjoy it for now because nothing lasts forever.
At some point, someone will realize (if they haven't already) that you don't really contribute much and can replace you. Whatever political cover you have currently is only one job shift/life change away from removing your shelter.
And while you are slowly unlearning, more hungry people are skilling up and will compete against you in your coming job search.
-
Nothing in Cowtard's comment suggested that they aren't contributing anything or are "unlearning". They very well may be the most productive that they've been in years and are happy & relaxed while doing it.
-
-
-
Since when has management wanted face to face contact with the peons?
-
When they want to chew you out.
-
Since when have the peons wanted face-to-face contact with management?
I am happy my boss works from home.
-
There are good managers out there. There are also terrible managers. Some managers like to talk face to face with employees, some don't. Many managers were "peons" as you put it before they became managers. They got promoted and discovered that being a good manager is hard.
-
-
How about I show you the middle finger, and you get extra close if you really can't see it that well?
-
How much of a premium do employers put on being in the office all 5 days of the week, compared to say 2 or 3 days out? How much of a salary premium would you say they would give?
For example, $90k a year for a half-telework employee versus $100k for full-presence would imply a $10k premium.
-
But they don't put any premium on it. They like to say they do so they can try to justify paying less. But the fact is: your salary reflects nothing more than how much value (the company believes) you bring to the company.
Where you are when you bring that value is immaterial. They don't care if you commute 90 minutes each way uncompensated.
Sure, sometimes you just have to go somewhere because the job is impossible to do remotely, but if your job can be done on a laptop from your home then why waste the ener
-
Here in The Netherlands cubes would actually be a step up.
We have open offices, aka rooms with a lot of desks in it with almost 0 soundproofing. -
> your salary reflects nothing more than how much value (the company believes) you bring to the company.
I realize that per individual, but on average how much does management value full-in versus split?
> They like to say they do so they can try to justify paying less.
But when push comes to shove, they must put some value on it. Some employees would actually accept less for a split schedule. How much less would the org accept versus not allowing it and losing employees who would otherwise take a discou
-
-
-
Why are they so adamant about employees getting back in the office? Is it to justify management positions?
-
Correct. The property owners are really scared though. Their big expensive buildings could no longer be in demand or have limited capacity. They're going to start crying to politicians to put a stop to remote work. The market giveth and the market can also taketh away.
-
What sucks about all of that is that WFH is an easy way to eliminate a lot of fuel usage and the robber barons in the petroleum industry are also scared.
-
-
Absolutely. Managers are, by and large, useless - when not just plain parasites. With people working from home and things going ahead without any significant problems, the bean counters will eventually come to the realization that most managers are just dead weight.
-
I suppose that you want to write all the TPS reports, sit in endless meetings and stare at spreadsheets until your eyes bleed all while soothing the egos and wrangling through the life issues of all of your subordinates.
I say, thank goodness for managers, because they do all the BS work that hands-on people like me would be driven insane/to an early grave by.
-
-
Here in NYC the government wants everybody back in offices, because then they will be taking public transportation (as in Subway) and if they make it to work without beaten up, pushed onto the tracks, or stabbed, they will go out and buy lunch and do their shopping in the city, plus the occasional after-work get-together in the local bar or restaurant. All these will positively impact the economy and thus get more taxes. It is also obvious that they need to "heal" people from the lockdown mentality. (Good l
-
-
-
You think this is bad, those executives are getting paid more money too!
-
-
TFA only elaborates on 2021. But are the current numbers for "bosses" really that different from, say, 2018?
Over the years I worked with several good "bosses" and they regularly were off site talking to customers, "bosses" from departments in other regions, exploring opportunities with people outside of the company, haggling vendor contracts etc.
These are also activities where it makes sense to meet in person because the topics are vague, conflicts can arise and things can become emotional, so one would wan
-
for pro-corporate politicians who make this stuff possible? Or acknowledge that money is power, and people who have a *lot* of it have power over us?
-
Management==Control
Leadership==Example
I took some licks along the way, but, in the end, it always seemed to work for me. -
As the immortal Bob Dobbs once said:
"I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
-
One of my general rules in life is never to ask other people to do things I wouldn't be willing to do myself. It's a very simple rule, and easy to follow to boot.
Especially in this case, it is in no way unreasonable to expect managers to set an example by showing up every day if they expect others to do the same. It's bad enough C-Suite execs usually have offices that are completely partitioned off from the rest of the building with their own private entrances so they never have to really mix with the unwas
-
Someone has to be there to oversee the addition, the kitchen remodel, and the See Rock City feature on 3 acres in the back. Can't possibly be at the office. I'm going to need IT over here too, Teams isn't working at my See 7 Slums View spot.
-
The fact that those clowns aren't onsite is the main reason I can actually get stuff done during my on-campus days! Don't ruin it!
-
Forcing people to be in one place often has less than nothing to do with the work. It has to do with middle-man suits and micromanagers staying employed in work where they're not actually useful, and with higher executives feeling in control even if it comes at the expense of productivity.
A lot of these guys are only in business in the first place to lord over others and be "The Boss." Money is just something they have to make in order to stay that way. But when money and control are at odds, it can g -
The companies where this is happening are lucky. Generally speaking, the people in the corner offices are the dumbest people in any building, with the possible exception of companies being run by their founders, IF they are the ones who had the bright idea for the product or service at the center of the business.
Any day the boss is on the golf course is likely to be a more productive day, assuming the workers are reasonably smart and responsible, which is admittedly not always the case.
-
I run a consulting company, live in one country and work remotely in another. So, I am working from home, in the office and remotely (and browsing Sloshdat) all at the same time.
-
In article after article people seem to misconstrue that managers and execs at these companies are pushing this in order to maintain "control" over their employees, despite little to no evidence to the contrary.
The real reason is real estate costs. The summary touches on it, but it is *THE MAJOR* factor at play here.
The real issue is that employees want to have their cake and eat it too.
- They want the flexability to work from home whenever they please. The reality is, this usually means 4+ days / week are-
The solution is simple - you want your own desk? *COMMIT* to being in the office *A MINIMUM* of 3 days a week. If after a month your badge reports show that you did not achieve that, then you lose your desk and have to hot-desk.
I'll go one further.
They can keep my hot desk and my regular desk, I don't need one there on site at ALL and I'll work from home 100% of the time.
-
That should also be an option.
My point is that the majority of employees I talk to, want both. They want to come in sometimes (because WFH for 3 years is lonely), and WFH sometimes.
And the more you talk, the more you realize that what the actual ask is, they want to WFH for 4 days a week and only come in one day a week to see people.
Which is not really sustainable whatsoever, at least not with a fixed desk. You can not have your cake and eat it too.
-
-
Does logic no dawn on you?
How about having everyone work from home and save money?
Leave the lights off.
Turn the AC and heat Off or just above water pipe freezing temps.
No more cleaning costs, trash costs, paper or pencil cost etc.
Yes you are paying rent. You would be paying that anyway and is a business deduction.
Once the lease is up safe that money by not leasing again.
"COME ON PEOPLE - you need to give SOMETHING." spoken like true management.
The people are always giving something. The management u
-
-
...in my experience, all of my employees worked from home the entirety of the last 2 years, unless they had to come in to get samples or pick up a new monitor etc.
I, on the other hand, was the only one in the office every single day. For 2 years. **not complaining, mind you, mostly this was my choice as I'm much more productive at the office than home, this is just a counterpoint to the tiresome generalization of the op.
-
While 35% of non-executive employees are in the office five days a week, only 19% of executives can say the same thing
Did they account for traveling? Generally, management travels more than employees.
Recommend
About Joyk
Aggregate valuable and interesting links.
Joyk means Joy of geeK