Ubuntu Criticized For Bug Blocking Installation of .Deb Packages - Slashdot

›

• 2 hidden comments

• Re:

  I've been using KDE Neon, but think I'll be moving to Devuan.
  • 1 hidden comment

  • • You're seeing PEP 668

      This is true of all system Python in GNU/Linux distributions since PEP 668 [python.org]. Ostensibly, it's to protect the user from installing a new major version of a package whose breaking changes cause other packages installed on the system to stop working. Creating a venv solves the problem.

• by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Saturday May 04, 2024 @04:31PM (#64448028)

  I have given up with Ubuntu years ago and moved to Devuan, which really is what Ubuntu should have been.

  Mint 21 (Cinnamon) for me -- Snap disabled by default and pledged to stay that way.

  • Re:

    Yep. Install Mint. Problems gone. No forced Snap, actual native packages for all the important stuff, plus support for Flatpak (if you really want those huge/complex containers).

    And the next Mint, based on 24.04 should be out in a few months, as well. Plus, every in-place upgrade I have done has been flawless, so far...

    • Re:

      I like Mint too - but AFAIK there's no server variant. So if you want to live in that general universe, your choices are either to fiddle with a bunch of different settings (especially some of the aggressive energy-saving ones) post-install, or just go with Ubuntu Server.

      In the end I don't think Canonical is any better than IBM / Red Hat... I just think they don't have the footprint to be quite as blatant about their anti-user moves. Yet.

      • Re:

        Exactly my thoughts. For desktop, Mint is great. But I am struggling with what to use on servers now that I refuse to use *EL. Debian stable isn't updated long enough. No experience with SELS. That leaves just Ubuntu. And, like you, I think they are headed down a bad path like RedHat, they just don't have enough leverage yet.

        • Re:

          At least for now, on servers I've gone with AlmaLinux - which admittedly was the lower-work option for our formerly-CentOS servers anyway. I do like the steps they've taken to this point, and they're saying the right things at least.

          In my mind, though, the one big unanswered question is just how far out of its way IBM intends to go to make Alma's and Rocky's existence untenable.

  • How Have You Switched From Ubuntu? Mint.

    How have you actually switched from Ubuntu when Mint is based on Ubuntu? I see these statements all the time and the self-deception is mind boggling.

    • Re:

      Mint comes with slightly different, as well as Mint-developed, apps pre-installed and no snaps. They have different installers and Mint is a bit easier to manage, especially for newer users, though that wasn't a major factor for me as I have 30+ years as a Unix(ish) admin.

      As for Ubuntu, I used it up to version 18.4 but soured when Canonical started pushing snaps, and delivering some apps only as snaps (like Firefox, Emacs) -- w/o having to resort to PPAs to get the packaged versions. While I'm not a hu

• • Re:

    Devuan is for people who want a UNIX-like operating system. Or there is *BSD as well.

    • Re:

      I wipe *BSD off the bottoms of my shoes.

  • Re:

    Do a lot of rewriting of init files, do you?

• • Re:

    Step one - stop being an AC troll.
    
    Step two - stop dissing your users and thinking of them as "lusers". Those BOFH days are long gone. Your attitude is that of a knuckle-dragging caveman, and you need to fix it before you're qualified to fix your users' problems.
    
    Step three - get Linux Mint onto their computers.

• Re:

  Ubuntu is exactly what it is, a corporate distro.
  I installed Ubuntu on a new laptop to begin using Linux in 2000, then later converted to Debian when I wanted a more sleek installation.

  Devuan is what Devuan is, the spiritual successor to Debian.
  Migrated to the first stable version after systemd became default with Debian and have only used that since on laptops and PCs..

• Re:

  Synaptic Package Manager FTW. On the negative side, it doesn't feature or recommend programs. But on the plus side, it doesn't feature or recommend programs. And no, the way I wrote those two sentences wasn't an error.

  Synaptic allows you to search for a program, then tells you what all the deps are and how much extra space it will take up on your drive. I've found that to be very useful. For example, there are a lot of programs I'd like to install from KDE. But most of them want to bring in pretty much the

• Re:

  Early versions of Discover didn't work for me, but it has been greatly improved since then. I do all of my system updates using it, and it does the job well.

  While I like deb packages, I have grown to prefer snaps for most programs since they are usually more up to date than the deb repositories (when the program has a snap at all, which isn't always the case).

• Re:

  exactly.
  Linux was first hijacked by what someone here called SystemD-os (redhat)... and Ubuntu has Snap to tie you down.
  So, basically, the value added by redhat and ubuntu is really only there to create a microsoft-like dependency.
  Devuan ftw!

  • Re:

    Be mindful that both Ubuntu and Red Hat contribute a LOT to various open source projects.

    Both have significant contributions in systemd (some hate it, others love it) and the Linux kernel. However, their contributions don't stop there. I wouldn't be amazed if, for example, both have put developers on GNOME (to name but something).

    • Re:

      I think the main complain is that it does, or tries to do, too much -- certainly more than it *needs* to do (eg: DNS) -- and some not in the way it ideally should (eg: PID 1). Basically it suffers from mission creep and bloat.

      Personally, I started with BSD and have used or been an admin on many flavors of Unix -- I think I've used them all except those from Apple -- as well a several flavors of Linux (I prefer the Debian-based ones, I currently use Mint) and they have run the gamut of system startup/co

      • Re:

        And by that I mean 4.3BSD on a VAX 11/785 -- I'm old.:-)

    • Re:

      What Ubuntu and Redhat contribute is in their pants!

      Ubuntu's contributions are self-centered and self-serving...for the most part.

      Redhat's contributions are now locked up behind paywalls...if you want to examine the source code...cuz It's Licensing Baby !

      I have not used Ubuntu in a decade or more, same with Redhat and it's Fedora offspring.

      I used to use Centos before Redhat smothered it to death.

      • Re:

        I agree RH tried to smother CentOS to death, but it obviously has failed. AlmaLinux is still doing fine.

        If you haven't used either Ubuntu or Fedora in 10 years, then I'm not sure your criticisms of either are valid. For all their warts, Ubuntu and Fedora seem to form the foundation of most of the popular and successful distros out there, so they aren't completely doing things wrong. Of course Ubuntu itself stands on Debian, a giant for sure.

        RH's source code is still available, both in the form of the ori

  • Re: Who cares.

    I hate Snap and Flatpak too, hate the way Ubuntu's _own updater_ chokes and dies when it's time to update them - can't make it work without a trip to the command line, so why have a GUI anyway?

    That said, I work helping a group that publishes tri-platform software, and the engineers went with Flatpak for Linux because we had no hope of getting the package into the Debian repo. Maybe a redistribution of Java thing I think (don't recall the details).

    So anyone installing from the Debian repo gets a many-years-o

• Re:

  rpms and debs are inherently distro-specific and don't support user only installs. The reason to not support debs in original article was that they always require root to install thus are gaping security hole. Not sure about snap but flatpak allows you to do a user install that doesn't require root.

• Re:

  Nothing's changed. If you lament the "old ways" then you'll be happy to know the same process you used to install debs on the "old" systems still works on today's modern systems. You don't *need* to use snap or flatpack. dpkg -i still works like it always did.

  That said a generalisation of "worked better" is just demonstrating ignorance of the complexities of package managers and why snap or flatpack exist in the first place. Each has benefits and downsides. None is inherently "better".

• Re:

  We need something better than Snap or Flatpak.

  Maybe the replacement should be called Flapjack

  Flapjack would still work well even if you are a bit off in your dependencies... bacon & eggs, sausage & potatoes, coffee, juice, tea.

  Only known bug so far... flapjacks only work their best on the weekends... Saturday & Sunday.

  • Re:

    How about something really crazy like static binaries? Or did people forget that was ever a thing?

• Re:

  I just double-click on the.deb from the Downloads folder and it installs. The GUI install was new to me as well.

  Not sure what all the fuss is about.