Josh: Our hero today is Chris Cooper, a fitness business expert. Multi gym owner and author of the massively successful book and consulting company, Two Brain Business. In this episode, Chris reveals three business models that can sustain profitable gyms. If you’re a personal trainer, he also unpacks business models that help you work less while living the lifestyle you want.

With the fundamentals of business down, Chris then shows how you can go from six figures a year to building a multi million dollar business. In other words, a business that doesn’t just bring in a million dollars in gross, but makes enough to pay its owners over a million dollars a year too. You don’t want to miss this episode.

Without further ado, Chris Cooper.

All right, welcome to the Gym Heroes podcast, Chris. If you could introduce yourself first in your background in the fitness, business and marketing space.

Chris Cooper: Yeah, sure. Thanks, Josh. Really fired up to be here. So I am the founder and CEO of Two Brain Business Inc, which is the largest mentorship practice in the world for gym owners.

I started my first gym in 05 because I just wasn’t making enough money as a personal trainer. And I thought that being a really great coach would just translate into. Owning a great gym and it took me three years and a near bankruptcy to figure out that wasn’t the [00:02:00] case. I found my first mentor in 2009, started publishing everything that he told me, just as like a letter to myself or maybe kind of like writing the textbook that I needed that didn’t exist.

And I put that on a blog for free for about three and a half years, called don’t buy ads. com. That turned into my first book. Which was, yeah, I mean, it kind of a collection of those blog posts. The first book was called Two Brain Business. It sold about 32, 000 copies and became the bestselling fitness business book of all time.

And then in 2016, I founded Two Brain Business, which is a one on one mentorship practice that works exclusively with gym owners. And we have 847 gyms around the world, as of this morning. And my gym is one of them. Awesome.

Josh: One of the things you do is you talk a lot about how gym owners can get out of the classic technician predicament where they get in the business because they like to do.

The technical part of it, [00:03:00] but then they get stuck where they can’t grow the business. They can’t work on the business itself because they’re too, they’re too busy managing all the operation particulars and cleaning the toilets and chasing around contractors and all that kind of stuff. So how can they take steps to free themselves up to do more high level things so they can create more wealth and growth in their fitness business instead of being stuck cleaning toilets?

Chris Cooper: We call this the value ladder, and so a lot of fitness business owners, you know, first off, they, they believe like I did that if they’re really, really good at being a fitness coach or a trainer or whatever, they’re going to be successful. And there’s actually a name for that. It’s called the technician’s curse.

I didn’t hear it when I opened up. And so what I found was that I was working 16 hour days making maybe 40 K a year. Gross, taking home less, not seeing my kids, fighting over the grocery bill with my wife. And eventually, finally, I realized like, okay, I need to learn how to actually run a business here. My job has changed.

So when people make this realization, it’s this big epiphany and they start looking for business books and podcasts and stuff. And, and it’s great because now they’re actually ready to learn how to run a business. And then they think like, okay, the first thing I’ve got to do is I got to create some time for myself.

I can’t do this marketing stuff that I’m learning. I can’t refine my sales process. I can’t do this stuff when I’m coaching all day. Right. And they’re right. The problem is that they look first to hire another technician is just like themselves. So they’re like, well, I’m a coach. If I need more time in my day, I need to hire another coach.

The problem with that is that like, you know, you’re probably the best coach in town. So you’re never going to find anybody that’s as good as you that’s number one. Number two, hiring a replacement coach is pretty expensive. So it’s, it’s this leap of faith and three is like you probably can’t afford to give them a lot of work.

So what we teach is actually different and we start by [00:05:00] breaking down all the roles and tasks in your gym. If you’ve ever read the e myth That’s a great start for this. Yep. And you figure out like where you can buy back your time most cheaply. So for me, that was cleaning and this would have been, 2009.

So at that time, minimum wage in Ontario is about 11 and 50 cents an hour. So I could hire a cleaner for 11 and 50 cents for one hour a day. His name was Sean and he would come into my gym and he would start to mop at 9 p. m. And instead of me mopping, I would sit at the desk and I would write my email to my clients.

And sometimes I would talk about, you know, this new package that we had or whatever. And on the second day, I sold two memberships from doing that and that paid for Sean’s wage for a month. And I said, okay, I’m starting to get it. Like that was the first little sign that I was getting some traction as a business owner, buying back my time.

[00:06:00] And then I said, okay, well, what is the next place where I can cheaply buy back time, you know? And so the next thing was like an admin. And then from there, you know, I hired somebody to coach the 6 a. m. morning class. And eventually just kind of like worked my way up from, from really inexpensive, highly leverageable roles into the more expensive ones.

And some amazing stuff happened along that journey. I broke it all down in my first book, Two Brand Business, but we break it down in, Gym Orr’s handbook, one of my books, Step by Step. It’s up above my head there.

Josh: Excellent. Yeah, that’s a really great way to think about it. I did read e myth many years ago, but it wasn’t, I had a, we didn’t talk about this before the podcast, but I, I, I had a tech window club.

I ended up shutting it down because I didn’t know anything about marketing or business and the technician curse was one of the reasons why I did. I was just burnt out. And I didn’t have a budget. There’s the, the circumstances around starting it. a place that I work for close down. So I read e [00:07:00] myth, but I didn’t read it, soon enough.

But that is a great way to think about it, that you’re not just people get into the systemization. There’s like, Oh man, great. Oh yeah, I can do this. And, but they’re not, there’s a way to go about it. There’s a right and a wrong way. And if you’re just trying to replace yourself as a coach. There’s a good chance it’s not going to work very well and in the martial arts specifically and personal training, all of this, they’re often like, they’re, they’re often, cult of personality type of business in some

Chris Cooper: ways.

They are. Yeah. And you know, I fell into this trap too of thinking like none of my clients are going to want to work with anybody else. But when I finally did hire a coach. It was for the 6 a. m. group and her name was Charity. She was only maybe two years into her degree. She didn’t have any of the technical, like, I mean, she had some technical knowledge, but not what I had.

But she could smile at people at 6 a. m. And I was just too exhausted to do that. [00:08:00] And pretty soon, the 6 a. m. CrossFit group started to grow. Because people like charity, they liked, she’s the first person I see and she’s happy and bubbly and it doesn’t matter if she can’t draw a graph about like the energy, systems in chalk on the floor.

Like who cares? And so while charity be coaching that class, I would still come in at the same time and I would sit at the desk and I would think about my sales process or I’d be writing my staff playbook or whatever it was that grew my business. And from what I learned from that was like a key principle that I live by today, which is every day you spend 30 minutes doing something that grows your business before you do anything else.

And, when I started doing that, the gym slowly really started to get momentum and I started to replace myself in other places and learn how to grow a business. Awesome. Yeah. So a part

Josh: of that, part of that process, when you start working on the business itself is structuring. the business [00:09:00] model in a way that actually allows you to support the growth you want.

So what, what sort, what do you need to do? I’m sure there’s more than one. I saw that you had a resource on your website. So what, what are some business model considerations you need in order to take yourself from scraping by at 000 a year to actually being able to pay yourself, the gym owner, not the gym itself, but you’re being able to yourself, the gym owner, make a six figure salary.

Chris Cooper: So there’s really six different elements there. And so the first is like what we call ARM. Average revenue per member. How much is each member worth? The second is leg leg, which is like how long do they stick around because if they’re worth a lot But they bail all the time. You’re just now you’re a marketer and then you know effective hourly rate like what jobs are you doing?

And then another one is how many clients do you actually have which is important? And then another one is like roi what? [00:10:00] Return. Are you getting on the investments that you make in your space, your equipment, your staff, and finally that owner benefit? Like, do you actually have the discipline to pay yourself?

So we teach these things as like, you know, the, the six strategies to grow a business. And there’s ways that you can like optimize each one. Most people should start with client value. Most people underprice themselves or they base their rates on like what the other dude’s doing minus 5, not knowing that he’s underpriced and burned out too.

Right. And, or they like, they, they write the price for their own budget, but it’s really common. If you walk into a CrossFit gym, a HIIT gym, like, and there’s a room of 12 with 12 people in it, like the person who’s making the least in that room is the owner. Right. Like all the clients have a bigger budget than the coach does.

So you have to base your pricing based off that and then you have to look for ways that you can, you can serve those clients too. So when we’re working with people, we start by like looking at [00:11:00] client value and bringing that up. In the CrossFit kind of high intensity interval training space, strength conditioning, you want to start by 205 a month.

And that’s kind of a shocking number for a lot of people, especially like the average price of a CrossFit gym is down. It’s below 115 a month. But the reality is like, that’s a mean average. So some clients will want to do it one on one and they’ll pay more. Some will want to do semi private and they’ll pay more, et cetera, you know.

So, so we start with that and then we look at like retention systems after that, like how do we keep people around longer and we, we build them like, what we call a prescriptive model. So you come in, you do a consultation, we say, Josh, like, here’s where you’re going to start, we’re going to meet again in 90 days, we’re going to measure your progress and then we’re going to tweak it and every time we do this, our prescription is going to get better and you’re going to get results faster and faster and faster.

Now in a martial arts gym, that’s [00:12:00] very tough. But there are like definitely ways that you can grow a martial arts gym. Our problem in the CrossFit space was that there was no model. There is no like CrossFit affiliate model. Yeah. But it’s a lot easier to start with a model, build it, and then change it later than it is to start with no model, try to figure everything else out from scratch and wind up where I was, you know, destitute, exhausted, and fighting with my wife over buying the expensive cheese at the grocery store.

Yeah, so we, we share like three different sample models, but our mentors worked. Individually one on one with gym owners to build their specific model. And the most popular model on our site is what we call the one 50 model, where you have 150 clients, you have an ARM of about 205 a month. You’re keeping these people for at least two years.

And, that should net you about 100, 000 a year in net order benefit. Once you’ve achieved that, then the model is going to change a little bit [00:13:00] to get you up to like a million. But, but that 150, 000 model is just such a great starting point. You know, everybody should just do something like that, get them to that level, and then decide what they want to tweak instead of starting from scratch and trying to invent everything for themselves.

Josh: Yeah, I’m interested to know, how you’re getting to that. You mentioned, like, memberships and then also some people want to do, like, More expensive stuff like, one on one training and semi private training. And so that sort of balances it out. Like what, what is the, what are you charging for like an upper level membership that isn’t quite one on one training?

Chris Cooper: Well, there’s, it varies by gym, right? Like some, some gyms, they don’t want to do any one on one training, which is fine, but they have to set their membership prices higher. You know, other gyms, they want to do one on one, but they’ve only got so much capacity. So they might switch to semi private. And so like their top [00:14:00] tier program for a lot of these gyms could be as high as 800 bucks a month where they’re including like nutrition, accountability calls, you know, so many workouts a week with a coach, or they might be doing semi private where you’re, you’re doing like One on one training, but you’re working with three clients at a time.

So maybe I’ll paint a picture of that model. We’ve got a specialist at two brain who works just on this. This is probably the model that I would have gone to back in 2008. So, we were a personal training studio. There were four trainers there. We were packed. Like you could not put another client in our books.

We thought, okay, how do we make more money? We could have raised our rates. And we could have gone semi private, but we’d never heard of it. And instead we said, we’re going to open a CrossFit gym. That nearly bankrupted us, by the way. And I can go into that story. But had we known it at the time, we would have done semi private.

So the way semi private works is like, you and I are buddies. We want to work [00:15:00] out at the same time, but we want to have different programs. You know, you’re training for whatever. I’m training for cycling. And our third buddy, Mike, is a powerlifter. Very different goals. But we’re all going to come in at noon.

On Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and we’re going to have a trainer named Jessica and we’re going to be working on our different programs at the same time, she’s going to coach me on how to do a better clean. She’s going to spot your bench press. And then she’s going to give Mike some tips on his sumo deadlift and then she’s going to rotate around.

So you get a lot of that like camaraderie and group training benefit, but we’re all doing individualized programming. And the reality of that model is like, The coach can make way more, the gym can make way more, and the clients can pay a tiny bit less, for that session, and everybody wins.

Josh: Yeah, I’ve seen that, I’ve even seen some guys I follow talk about that model applied to martial arts.

It does need a little bit, and [00:16:00] probably in yoga too, it needs a little bit. of modification because it’s hard to be quite that individual. Yeah. With a very small, like a semi private class. But because your potential is not distributed across four, you know, 30 yoga students or Yeah. 25 martial arts students, it is easier to be more individual in many ways.

How do you message something like that to acquire people who are willing to Go into that class because I, I, I understand pretty clearly how you do that with more traditional gym class structures, but how do you do that for semi private?

Chris Cooper: Well, in a martial arts gym, it goes like this, you onboard clients and cohorts, and let’s say that you’ve got a class, you know, a new cohort of jujitsu students starting September 1st.

And I happen to see your ad, but it’s September the 5th. [00:17:00] And I’m like, Oh man, am I too late, Josh? And you’re like, you’re not too late. The class has done two sessions already, but I can catch you up. Let’s do two personal training sessions. Here’s the rate and then you can join the class, you know, and you’ll be at their level.

Perfect. You know, and if I call like three weeks in, you’re like, oh, well, it’s going to take you about six personal training sessions to catch up to the rest of the class. But the other way that you can do it is you can say, you know, Chris, there’s somebody else who just called and they want to join late too.

Our one on one session rate is 70, but for 55, the two of you can work together and I think you’ll progress faster. By collaborating than you would on your own. What do you think? So now you the coach are making 110 for that hour. I’m paying slightly less than your PT rate I’m getting I think greater benefit from having somebody to like practice on and we’re catching up to the beginner class, right?

It’s a win for everybody if I’m in a CrossFit II gym or a personal training studio It goes more [00:18:00] like this. And by the way, this is how CrossFit started. So, the founder of CrossFit, Greg Glassman, his book was full. He couldn’t take any more clients. And so what he would say is like, Hey, Josh, you’re crushing it, dude.

Like, you’re really smashing these workouts. Your numbers are all going up. You can run a mile. You can deadlift 300 pounds now. High five. The only way that I could possibly speed up your progress anymore is if I partnered you with somebody who’s at the exact same level as you, and then you’ll get a little bit of collaborative competition.

You know, you’ll push harder when the other person is right here with you. Do you want to try it? And you’d say, yeah, Greg, I’ll give it a shot. And so he’d bring in like Diane, okay? And, okay. You know, Josh and Diane, we’re going to do this session. Here’s our workout today. Okay. Josh, your goal is blank and Diane, your goal is this three, two, one go, and here we go.

And bingo, both of them got better results faster and that’s how CrossFit was [00:19:00] born really. It wasn’t like a group coaching class. And so that’s what you do. If you’ve got a personal training studio is you look for opportunities where you can partner people up and they will get greater benefit together.

Then they will alone and that’s when you partner them up. You don’t like advertise for semi private The third way is like if, if somebody’s coming in the door and you’ve already got semi private running and they’re like, okay, Josh, you know, I need to lose 30 pounds. I’m busy. I’ve got two kids. I’ve got a full time job.

It’s very demanding. I’m stressed out a lot. I’m a stress eater. You could say, you know what? I’ve got something that you might think is perfect here. So I’ve got these, these other two dads who come in at three o’clock, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, and they have different goals slightly than you, but they are trying to lose weight, but they’re super busy.

They’re professionals. They each have a couple of kids and we just have a great time. I’m sure they’d welcome you into their group. Would you [00:20:00] like to train with them? And of course that does bring the price down a little bit. And so, I would say like, well, I’m not at their level. And you would say, no problem, Chris, we’re going to do 10 personal training sessions.

We’re going to get you to their level or, you know, proficiency. And then, I’m going to introduce you to them. You’re going to try working out with them. If you like it, I think everybody will benefit. If you don’t like it, that’s cool. We’ll go back to one on one until I find you a better partner. What do you think?

You know, and that’s how you sell it to a new prospect. Yeah.

Josh: So with, with the membership, I’m interested to know about the member, like the sales process with memberships. Are there too many types of memberships you can present to somebody who’s interested in signing up to your gym or too few? How does, how should that, how should People approach that for building a more profitable gym.

Chris Cooper: Yeah, man. So there’s this [00:21:00] amazing book by a researcher named Shaina Iyengar called The Art of Choosing. And, so this is like the lead researcher from a Harvard study on how people make choices versus getting paralyzed by choice. So the last thing you want to do is like give them 10 options because they’re not going to pick any.

The most you can give them is three options at one time. So we do something that’s called a prescriptive model. And the, the first sales meeting is called the no sweat introduction. So you come into the gym. Hey Josh, what brings you to Catalyst? Why do you want that goal? Why is that important to you, right?

Like we dig deep and then we say, okay, let’s put you on the in body or whatever. We’re going to do one little quick assessment. Then I’m going to say, okay, so, you know, based on what your goals are, the fastest way that you can get there is this. I think this is the right option for you. And if you say, I don’t think I can’t afford that because it’s usually a price objection.

That’s usually like an expensive option. We [00:22:00] say like, okay, well look with, with your budget in mind, like these are the three things that I would consider. I’ve shown you one, here’s two others. They’re not going to get you there as fast. But they’re going to get you there, you know, so now I’m presenting three, if somebody is like, ah, I’ve only got a hundred bucks, I’d slip a couple of pages in my sales binder and I’d say, okay, I got three ways I can start you.

First I can start you with a walking plan. Second, I can start you with, I don’t know, I don’t sell anything for a hundred bucks, but you know what I mean? Like you could present three options at a time, but really they’re coming to you because they want you to just tell them the answer. And this is where a lot of gym owners fall apart is like.

They’re, they don’t want to feel a little slimy or they don’t want to feel like they’re pushing somebody into a sale, but really like it’s your job to tell the person this is what is going to solve your problem. And so that’s like why we have a sales binder. I’m awkward about it. It’s easier if I can like flip open a page and be like, well, this is the one you want, Josh.

You know?

Josh: Yeah, [00:23:00] I’m also interested to know about types of classes like different for diversifying the classes that you have if you run like a more of a commercial Box gym that’s more general in nature. It kind of makes sense to have more stuff like that But if you run more of a boutique fitness studio like yoga martial arts Something like a starting strength Strength training.

Yeah. I love starting strength. Yeah. I do too. It, does it make sense to try and add more types of classes? And if so, when?

Chris Cooper: So you want to kind of like go for the big rocks first, right? Like you want to offer a one on one option. You probably want to offer a nutrition coaching option, like check those two things off first.

But then like one of the things that we teach our gyms to do is, seed client interviews. So every year you’re going to pick three to five of your best clients. You’re going to take them one by one out for a coffee. You can ask them a couple of questions. What brought [00:24:00] you to my gym in the first place?

How are we different from other gyms? And, you know, if there was one thing that I could fix for you in your life by waving a magic wand, what would it be? And then from those things, if they’re like, Oh God, I just wish, you know, I was more flexible. Or, man, I, like, I wish you could stop me from going for fast food every time I leave the gym.

Like, that’s what should really point the way to specialty classes. Another way that you can do it, and this is very uncommon, but like, If you are assessing your clients regularly somehow, either through like martial arts or through, you know, strength and conditioning or, or starting strength or whatever, and you notice that there is a global deficiency, then you could start a specialty program and then that way it doesn’t affect your general program and people who want more help can get it without you having to like raise the price for everybody else.

Josh: makes sense. [00:25:00] So let’s say you’ve got the right business model down, membership options are working for you, things seem to be working now, you’ve got some traction. How does an operator shift from making himself six figures a year to growing his gym to become a millionaire?

Chris Cooper: Yeah, so we track slightly different metrics, so up to 100, 000 a year, I named six metrics that we tracked before, but you’re primarily tracking the owner’s income, right?

Like you can’t have a successful gym that doesn’t pay the owner anything. So you know, up to that stage, that’s what you’re focused on is growing the gym. As soon as you’re making 100k a year, you’re probably making a little bit more than you need and you have a little bit of free time. And now the decision that you have to make is like, how do I reinvest my time and this little bit of extra money?

And so the book that I’m working on right now is called Millionaire Gym Owner. We’ve certified 32 millionaires now. And this is a passion of mine because [00:26:00] in 2009 when I was struggling, I was looking for examples of people who had like made it, who had had like a successful fitness career and retired and put their kids through college.

And like, I couldn’t find any. None. So now I’m proud that we’re like leading the industry in this. So a certified millionaire means that you have a million dollars in net worth. Like if you sold everything that you own and you paid off all of your debts, you’d still have a million or more in your hand.

Okay. So the way that you get there, there’s a couple of different options. The first is to scale your current business to have like You know, double its size, you have to add a management layer, double your locations. Okay. So you’re probably going to have to add a manager to that. That’s fine too, right?

Like whatever, there’s options to do that. Another option is that you take the money from this business and you invest it in something else that’s going to compound. So it’s really growing in popularity now for gym owners to like buy their building. Right. And that’s like the first thing that I did. [00:27:00] So, if you’ve ever read rich dad, poor dad, it’s like.

Okay, great. Yeah. So you buy this building, you’re not paying rent, you’re paying a mortgage, and in 10 years the mortgage is paid off and the business is paying you instead. And when you’re done with your gym, you can just rent that building out to somebody else and you’ve got like an income for life.

Great, right? You can do that, of course, you can, you can invest, you could buy like bonds, you can invest in the stock market, crypto. A thousand different ways to do it, right? Another way that you could do it is to, like, level up within your specialty. So, for example, I work with a psychotherapist, and the way that she’s leveled up in her specialty is, like, she has a very high ticket offer for entrepreneurs.

So, if you go in and you talk to the psychotherapist about your family struggles or whatever, it’s, like, 150 an hour. But when she’s working with entrepreneurs, it’s, like, I don’t know, 7, for six months. And it’s more interesting problems for me that level up was [00:28:00] like, I can serve other gym owners by just teaching them what I learned.

And then it became, I can serve other gym owners by, you know, condensing the data that we get from these thousands of gyms every year and like teaching them that, other people might say, here’s a good one, smart and simple nutrition. They solve nutrition in their gym. Most other gyms can’t afford to hire a nutritionist or they’re worried about the legal problems.

So these guys will just like. Attach themselves to your gym and do your nutrition coaching for you and give you like the lion’s share of the money, right? Some people start supplement companies or whatever. So, there’s three different ways right there. You scale your gym up, you take profit out and reinvest or you, just serve other people with what you’ve learned.

Excellent. Yeah.

Josh: So switching gears for a second, what if, what if I’m a personal trainer? Yeah. And I actually, I don’t wanna bother myself with the financial and operational overhead of owning and running a gym, but [00:29:00] I do wanna try. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. Yeah. But I do wanna try and make six figures as a personal trainer.

What, what can I, how can I tinker with these business model ideas? Yeah in order to get myself there.

Chris Cooper: So first off, I hope if you’re a personal trainer listening to this that you like take this advice Get rich enough to invent a time travel device go back to 2005 and like punch me in the face because opening it opening a gym like, you know temporarily really caused me a lot of hardship and stress, but The model that I didn’t understand, and I don’t think anybody was really using its scale at the time, is semi private.

So, if I was just renting space from somebody else, or operating out of somebody else’s gym, in hindsight, this is what I would have done. Start off with, like, two on one. So, you know, fill your book, by all means. Don’t go crazy. Don’t coach more than eight hours a day. Like, I once coached 13 hours a day, and I [00:30:00] thought it was, like, the end of my life.

You know, coach up to eight hours a day. Always be looking for opportunities to partner somebody up where the whole is going to be more than the sum of its parts, where, you know, for accountability, for a little bit of that collaborative competition, for fun, for support, you know, having somebody that would like show up with Josh, that’s massive.

It’s great for client retention. It’s even better for client results. So go to two on one, then look for opportunities for three on one. And after you get to four on one, that’s when you start saying like, okay, I’m just, I’m going to run a group model here. What kills a lot of personal trainers is when they try to go from one on one to group.

Right. Like ask me how I know, but the problem is they wind up like, okay, I’m making 70 bucks an hour doing personal training. I can’t scale anymore. I’m going to run groups and I’m going to charge like, you know, eight bucks a visit and two people show [00:31:00] up. So now I’m making a fifth of what I was making before.

Right. But it’s all going to work out someday and then it never does. So yeah, you’re, you’re way better off to do that. The other option is to have like a more specialty service. So Hey, for an extra 200 a month, I can write a meal plan for you or to have what we would call a high ticket option, which is like, you are going to get my undivided attention.

We’re going to work out, you know, five days a week. Some of it’s going to be walking, but I’m going to be texting you every morning. You’re going to be sending me pictures of your meals. I’m going to do whatever it takes to get you to this goal, you know, and those sometimes go for like four or 5, 000 a month.

Josh: Yeah. Cool. A lot of great, a lot of great information and, guidance to chew on. Where, where can listeners find you if they want to get more

Chris Cooper: of my book? Thanks, man. My books are on Amazon. If you own a gym, probably gym owner’s handbook is your [00:32:00] best bet there. If you don’t own a gym yet, your personal trainer looking to scale up or you’re just dreaming about it, start a gym is another book that I’ve written.

That’s probably powerful for you. If you’re, A gym owner and you’re like doing okay. You’ve been around for a while. You want to take it to the next level. Then my book Founder, Farmer, Tinker, Thief explains like what you have to do at each level to get to the next one. But everything is available on twobrainbusiness.

com. And, I also moderate a big Facebook group of gym owners from around the world with like 7, 200 gym owners at gymownersunited.com. Awesome,

Josh: man. Thank you so much for coming on. I hope we can do this again sometime.

Chris Cooper: Thanks, Josh. It was a lot of fun. Really appreciate it.