World's Largest Vats For Growing 'No-Kill' Meat To Be Built In US - Slashdot
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World's Largest Vats For Growing 'No-Kill' Meat To Be Built In US
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The creation of Good Meat's 10 new bioreactors is under way, the company says, each of which has a capacity of 250,000 liters and will stand four stories tall, far bigger than any constructed to date. The US site for the facility is due to be finalized within three months and operational in late 2024, reaching 11,800 tons a year by 2026 and 13,700 tons by 2030. The bioreactors are being manufactured as part of an agreement with ABEC, a leading bioprocess equipment manufacturer, which is also making a 6,000-liter bioreactor for Good Meat's Singapore site -- this is scheduled to begin production in early 2023 and will itself be the biggest cultured meat bioreactor installed to date. Cultivated meat has not yet been approved for sale by the US Food and Drug Administration. "Weâ(TM)ve submitted our application," said Josh Tetrick, the chief executive of Good Meatâ(TM)s parent company, Eat Just. "Weâ(TM)ve found the agency to be fully engaged, asking all the questions youâ(TM)d expect, from cell identification to final product. Weâ(TM)d prefer not to try to predict if and when [approval] will occur."
Tetrick also said the company had produced a cell growth serum that does not require the use of bovine fetuses, which were previously widely used.
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Due to its enormous popularity, Good Meat is in short supply, so remember—Tuesday is Good Meat day.
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I'm a red-meat, carnivore, fuck everybody, not afraid of anything son of a bitch. Wait what? The meat wasn't from a slaughtered animal. I'm afraid of it now. It's probably yucky.
Seriously? Grow a pair. If it grills like meat and tastes like meat wtf cares where it came from? And if it can help stave off food shortages in the future then why not? I could care less. If my cheeseburger and brats tastes like a damn cheeseburger and brats when I bite into it, then I'm good to go.
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Barn-raised chicken is already very resource-efficient and humane (some will always argue), true, so I don't see the point of vat-grown pseudo chicken.
But red meat is becoming a problem. Here in Australia we have plenty of land that is not much use for anything but grazing, so lots of reasonably priced grass-fed beef and lamb. But worldwide, that is not the case. Too many people, not enough space, and animals being kept in pens and fed grain.
Already, wild fish is a scarce commodity, and we are becoming accustomed to farmed fish. More and more aquaculture will be in indoor tanks.
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Fence part of garden. Let them supplement their diet with bugs. They will do a nice job of fertilizing that garden.
Pork, messy but efficient. Yeah, not red. But if the choice is bacon or steak...
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Barn raised chicken? Not enough barns to meet the chicken demand. The only way to meet that, outside of vat-grown, is factory farms. Take a look at the effluent discharged from those on the Eastern shore of Maryland or in Virginia. You wouldn't want one of those as your next door neighbor.
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Anything a big corporation can do, smaller entities can accomplish (sometimes by working together, such as large capital projects.) Food production requires more human labor when it's more distributed, but it's potentially more efficient in every other way when the distribution is efficient. Right now, out on the road, there are literally functionally identical goods (same brand, same size package, etc.) being shipped past one another. And then there's a lot of other less-identical but still highly similar
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"food shortages" start with overpopulation. How about we, as a society, look to controlling that first? Just a thought. And if anyone goes, "but, but.. climate change means less food production!!!", that assertation is debatable (as increased carbon in the atmosphere can increase yields) but regardless - less population actually reverses climate change too. It's win:win. Overpopulation is the devil, but the elites stifle that discussion big-time because it stifles rising property and asset (share) prices.
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Except Africa all continents have reached less than replacement levels of fertility (2.1 children per woman) so there isnt really an over population problem. In 10-15 years all continents will start shrinking in population and populations will have to be maintained through African migration. The future of humanity is Black.
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Not if the make the world great for white people again types have the last word. (And the word is Armageddon)
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It's a complicated question like everything else. Is it wiser to eat vat meat or real meat. What's the chance that either one will be contaminated invisibly, etc etc. As things stand now processed meats are pretty unsafe although it doesn't have to be that way, that's only most profitable. Can you have sustainable real meat, the answer is yes, there are historical examples which are sustainable. Will we ever implement any of those, probably not, so around in a circle again.
My concern is that they will accid
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> It's probably yucky.
I mean, it's cancerous muscle cells grown on a scaffold of real bovine collagen, with who knows what added contaminates and who knows what missing nutrients - but you go ahead and try to strawman machismo as the main objection.
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is finally here! Kibo predicted everything!!
http://www.kibo.com/exegesis/a... [kibo.com]
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I'm not comfortable calling anything other than animal flesh "meat".
I think we are at the thin end of the wedge. First they slip the "meat" reference in there with "cultivated meat", "lab meat", "I can't believe it's not meat meat", and eventually when people are used to it, they'll just drop the prefixes and refer to this laboratory concoction purely as "meat". Then when you go into a burger joint and order a hamburger with a meat patty, you won't know what the hell you are actually sinking your teeth-
Who do you mean by “their”?
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They is he or she for gender-neutral nitwits.
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The lizard people, you fool!
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I'm not comfortable calling anything other than animal flesh "meat".
Well, unlike Tofurkey and Impossible Burgers, this material *is* animal flesh. They just figured out how to grow it without needing any of the other parts of the animal.
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Ya, killing and dismembering animals is something to be comfortable with.
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Yep. While you have a problem with it, that doesn't mean the rest of us should. Stop projecting your problems on to others.
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Solvent Green started in 2022.
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Oops, that's Soylent Green, I think.
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No, Solvent Green was accurate, and about as stupid an idea.
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They're aiming for over 13,000 tons a year by 2030.
Just for context, the US consumes 112,000 tons a DAY by my math (274lbs of meat a person on average per year, which is over 41m tons a year going with 300m population [being conservative, probably refers to a 330m pop].) Does that math add up?
If so, is there even a point for this?
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What’s the point? To make money. I’d be very surprised if this lab grown vat meat is actually priced lower than natural meat. I mean, I doubt it costs more to produce an Impossible Burger patty than the real deal. Yet they’ve convinced people to pay more for it than beef largely on the idea that it is more ethical to consume than a living being grown explicitly for slaughter. I buy it sometimes because I think it tastes good, especially topped with cheese, bacon, and/or an egg. I also buy
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At some point these was one single transistor on this planet and it was 6 inches square. Within a few years they were pea sized and mass produced. Now your average cpu has a few billion on an area the size of a postage stamp.
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Sure.
It means they're unlikely to overproduce and saturate the market.
And if these plants prove successful, they'll start building more until they make a real dent.
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The industry is in its infancy. Imagine if we required all energy generation to come from renewables before we installed a single renewable.
If this works they'll build more just like with renewables.
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Your point is that since this will not be able to replace the entire US meat production on day one it's by default useless and shouldn't be done at all?
This seems to be a common attitude nowadays. "Doing X won't completely remove the issue of Y, so there's no point". You hear this whether the topic is vaccines, homelessness, pollution, shootings, global warming, immigration, civil rights, etc. etc. No matter what, we seem unable to comprehend that a multi-pronged approach can compound positive effects.
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The goal is 13k tons for 2030. That's like 3hrs of meat replacement for the YEAR of consumption.
We really can't wait for this to scale.
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I'd say you've already made a prediction about "if" the FDA is going to approve it for sale, or else you wouldn't be investing millions in these factories. I, for one, can't wait to get my first taste of Chicken Little and wash it down with a swig of Coffiest.
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to make something as tasty and nutritious as brussel sprouts from meat by-products (skin, organs, bone meal, etc.).
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Its called composting.:-)
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"It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks and become one with all the people."
Chairman Sheng-ji Yang, "Ethics for Tomorrow"See also Soylent Green. It's made of people! PEOPLE!
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People are not buying electric cars as fast as they can make them because they now see the evil of stinking up the place with combustion engines, but because Elon Musk made an electric car that is BETTER than stinky cars in the same price bracket.
People will buy fake meat as fast as they can make it when it tastes better than dead animal flesh in the same price bracket.
One glorious day there will be production lines churning out fake Wagyu steaks by the ton.
This is just one step in that direction.-
Wrong. I'd pay a 10% markup to know I'm not slaughtering animals for something as stupidly simple as protein and calorie intake.
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Odds are good that the vat-grown stuff will wind up being cheaper. Just need to scale it out.
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While my next car will likely be a Model 3 they are absolutely not in the same price bracket of gas cars of similar quality. A Model 3 costs about twice what a Honda Civic does and completely lacks the dozens of cool customization options they have.
Of course I'll make a good chunk of that money back due to lower maintenance and using electric charging over gas but I have my doubts that those savings would completely make up the over $20k price difference.
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...of pro-life vs pro-choice vegetarians. Does an animal's life begin at conception? Since they can grow into larger organisms, do stem cells count as life? Oh, America! You're gonna have a great time with this:P
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My biggest complaint is that they're targeting the wrong audience. They all keep talking about scale and being cheaper than current beef in the US. They should be instead targeting the ultra high end and worry about scale later.
Japanese A5 wagyu beef is about 100$ per pound. if they can manufacture steaks (I've seen some examples of this over the last year or two), they can target the ultra fatty A5. Sell the lab grown A5 for half the original price of A5 (50$) and ppl like me will buy it up like crazy. the profit margins on A5 lab grown would be absolutely massive compared to the tiny margins offered by cheap steaks due to difficulty of manufacturing.
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An interesting idea - sort of what Tesla did for electric cars. Maybe this is the way to get wider acceptance, if people see it sold in top end restaurants, etc as consistent, gristle-free high quality food they will be more likely to try it when prices come down and volume goes up.
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Sounds good but I have a feeling there is a lot of yet to be developed tech around the difference between pink slime (like what apparently is in fast food burgers) and well marbled steak. First they have to make something edible, then go after the 1 and 2 star restaurants maybe. Hopefully they will eventually be able to synthesize all of the microtextures you would see in different meat parts and ranks. I met a fake meat company once several years ago and they were on the menu in some upscale bars, so your
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As far as I know we're not their yet with quality for what you describe to even be possible. As far as I understand where we're at right now in terms of quality for artificially grown meat is in the fast food burger tier for beef.
Bulk production is all we have the quality for right now.
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There was a story [wikipedia.org] about growing things in vats. It didn't end well. Are we sure we want to go down this path?
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One of the the earlier criticisms of lab grown meat was that the growth factor for it was harvested form premature baby cows, who were birthed from cows sent for slaughter, and then kept alive, premature, for as long as possible to harvest the growth factor. I heard that some company had found an alternative, however.
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edit: ignore my post I did not see the last sentence of the article
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Needs to be cheaper than raising a cow or it wont be viable.
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Summary of the comments on this article so far.
Without SOMETHING like this, we're doomed. I'd give it a try. I've tried meat substitutes before and they're mostly tasty -
WeÃ(TM)ve submitted our application," said Josh Tetrick, the chief executive of Good MeatÃ(TM)s parent company, Eat Just. "WeÃ(TM)ve found the agency to be fully engaged, asking all the questions youÃ(TM)d expect, from cell identification to final product. WeÃ(TM)d prefer not to try to predict if and when [approval] will occur.
Ok, getting a bit silly that this isn't fixed yet. Can't somebody spend 30 minutes on the code?
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Some people are trying to avoid eating highly processed foods, possibly for health reasons. They need to be aware that artificial meat is indeed highly processed.
My brother once asked, "If we are not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?"
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... making note not to stealth-insert some human cells in the bioreactor...
But what if people in the future develop a taste for human-derived cell meat? Trty our new McAnthropophagy Burger with the secret sauce (we guarantee not type O!)
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Because even crazy delusional people need to eat.
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1. 'Vegans' won't eat it anyway, they'll claim the animals didn't 'give their consent' to having their cells taken.
2. More highly-processed garbage that will likely have unintentional health consequences no one has bothered researching.
3. No one really wants this in the first place.
4. Unless climate change is addressed, none of this will matter anyway. Fix that first. -
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Well the other long term option is soylent green...
The trick here are two facts. First real estate and two humane treatment of animals. It's easier to grow large quantities of meat this way requiring a smaller footprint to give everyone the meaty meals "they deserve". Second most meat we eat isn't free range and beyond humanely treating animals, it often doesn't even taste as good. I live in Qingdao now, best meat in the world. Why -- virtually all of it's free range.
Luxury "real meat" will still always be
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Another thing is these cultures don't require the evolutionary constraints imposed by being part of a functional animal. That means over time, they can be selected to produce pure deliciousness, more than you could get even from a well treated free range animal, as the deliciousness may correspond to an untenable state for the cells of the complete animal.
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This seems fair but a good steak is a kind of gradient texture which makes its delicious. It seems you could make perfect burgers easily but replacing steak textures would be much more difficult and potentially approach a point where the energy requirements aren't beneficial. Specifically multiple cats of different cultures could need to undergo a 3d printing process to get this gradient I speak of.
That being said, I don't eat many steaks anymore, so I would probably be fine without this level of imitation.
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I think this is aimed at the garbage "ground beef" they put in buns and tacos and chile, not at the people who eat Wagyus.
(initially, anyway)
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In an ideal world, such a selection might be possible. But we live in the real world, were the first, second and third selection criteria are all the same: Cost reduction. The food industry already substitutes great tasting but expensive ingredients with the cheapest stuff they can get hold of, "taste" or "effects on health" be damned. The very same will happen with artificial meat.
The constraints of meat coming from a once functional animal at least mean its ingredients are not immediately harmful to the-
From your own reference
> In late October 2008, similar adulteration with melamine was discovered in eggs and possibly other food. The source was traced to melamine being added to animal feed, despite a ban imposed in June 2007 following the scandal over pet food ingredients exported to the United States.
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Meanwhile if you live in an area with a reasonably dense population you can go down to your local Whole Foods type store (hopefully you have better independent options but you work with what you got) where you can buy food made out of quality ingredients. At least if you don't live in an inner city neighborhood.
I don't buy your argument that artificial meat is doomed to poor quality. Even in today's animal based meat industry I have the option to buy cheap shitty quality meat or superior quality meat.
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Yes, of course, cows spending the vast majority of their lives living in vast ranches free from predators are not treated humanely.
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This "meat" will probably go into cheap fast food burgers where the customer won't be able to tell the difference.
Win for the environment.
Still not healthy to eat too much meat.
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It does sound disgusting... but the alternative is even worse. However, we've just trained ourselves not to think about that. I'm confident that in time we'll train ourselves not to think about this, either.
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Yea, but this is just the model T of meats. Give it 50 years and fully fleshed out muscle with marbled fat, tendon (if desired), and blood vessels will be cheap and easy to produce.
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What exactly about meat being grown sounds disgusting? Go to an abattoir and then compare this process with that and decide what is more disgusting.
I love the taste of meat and enjoy eating it. Fortunately I have been able to mostly block out knowledge of how it gets on my plate. If there was an alternative process that could make it that still ended up with the similar or netter texture and flavour without all the stress on whole animals, I'd definitely consider it.
Not a big eater of mince though and I don't want to eat meat paste, so if this only makes that stuff I'm still sticking to meat from animals, but I will continue to try and buy it from producers who at least have the beasts eat real grass and aren't stuck in a cage their whole lives.-
Well the meat vats may be as clean as the baby formula vats.
I'm no country boy, just a nerd from the suburbs. But once you taste meat from a cow you raised properly, having seen the butchering can have little impact. It becomes a worthwhile tradeoff. YMMV of course.
Sponsor a kid in a 4H program, you get much of the meat.
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Contamination will likely ruin the end product. Wrong taste, wrong texture, wrong everything. Straight out of the gate. It's not going to be like the baby formula recall where a few kids will get sick and die. It'll be the entire batch being a no-go from the start.
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More to the point meat is generally cooked.
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>What exactly about meat being grown sounds disgusting?
No support structure, no exercise for the muscle cells, no fat or different fats, different chemicals in the meat: What this means is it will have an unpleasant flavor and no texture. Maybe this will improve in time, but the current generation sounds disgusting.
>animals are treated badly
You're missing the point, probably deliberately. Grandparent post is talking about the idea of non-tissue vat-grown cells. How the animals are treated may influ -
Yes I think if this goes towards reducing the waste and the abuse I'm all for it. Like you I "block" out knowledge when I eat meat ( I like it, and it has nutritional value ). I did work in a slaughterhouse for a month during an implementation, and I can tell you I would shower and scrub for an hour every night to remove the smell of death from my nose, and ended up avoiding meat for a good three months after that.
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Which alternative are you talking about? Eating animal meat? I like eating animal meat. I don't have to train my brain not to think about it.
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For some perspective, Allan Savory's TED talk is recommended. As ecologists, they thought that grazing animals were causing desertification, so they shot 10,000 elephants. Later he came to realise that grazing animals are part of the ecosystem which regenerates the soil in conjunction with grasses, and the problem isn't that animals eat (or that we eat animals), it is that humans don't know how to manage the process properly.
And I suspect it is similar with lab cultures. We're going to do it artificially, a
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In theory, yes. I don't see these products succeeded outside of the vegetarian/vegan market. They're looking to replace meat. I'm not and neither are the vast majority of people.
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I noticed that for many Westerners the issue with Japanese/Chinese/Korean food is that it looks like the animal. You get things like tempura where the fish's tail is left sticking out the end (you don't eat that bit), or shrimp that you are expected to skin yourself. Some people eat the head.
To many Westerners that's just icky and they won't go near it. I think most of us don't like to think too much about where the meat comes from and what process it goes through to get to our plate. Being reminded of that
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I don't have a problem eating a whole lobster or traveling and encountering this. It takes getting used to, and that's all.
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Even the shell???
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I don't think I'll ever get past it. I'm fine eating rabbit heart, eel, sea slug, octopus nuggets... Just as long as it doesn't look like the animal it came from.
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I can already see the future protesters: "Creating life for the sole purpose of consumption is wrong!" "What if you were a genetically engineered ribeye steak?" "GOD never intended this." Meanwhile all of them look like skeletons....
/s
In all seriousness give it enough time, and we'll have everyone complaining again. It doesn't matter how "good" it looks like now. Hell, I'm sure we already have people whining. Humans are great at finding ways to denounce each other as immoral / unethical. Even if it means -
The thing is, unless you're a nutbar like the OP or a militant vegan, it doesn't sound disgusting at all.
If anything, to a rationally thinking person it sounds like a huge advancement. If we can get the tech right we can grow meat faster, cheaper, with fewer additives (easier to control diseases and parasites, so less need to medicate the animals against such things) and better quality control (even the best farming methods produce a fair bit of bad meat... and we only sell a fraction of that bad meat in -
Personally, I've never seen a reason to feel put off by vat grown meat as long as what comes out is close in quality to the real thing.
Of course I also have no problem eating bugs and others reluctance to eating them does actually make some sense to me.
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To me it's more disgusting to think of eating a chopped up dead animal.
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If we have the option of eating meat, Without harming any living being, then more power to us. This sounds like a good alternative. Impossible foods & beyond meat products are good options, but none of them taste or feel like the real thing (but they are quite close).
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> If we have the option of eating meat, Without harming any living being, then more power to us.
Earth mean consumption is about 400 000 tons. They produce 13 tons. Se we would need 30769 units of these largest vats. That means that each group of around 250 thousand people (mediocre town) would need to build one of these. Then again, by doing so, they would no longer need other meat products. It might be possible.
But from the timelines and historical records of how fast ideas spread, I estimated that it w
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At least there will be a choice between beef and chicken, with no Soylent Green.
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The people were the fertilizer for the cow and chicken feed.
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That's the thing, they will make sure you can not help it. Gas to $20/gal, Beef $100/pound, and they will have you convert just like they want.
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Some of us are too ethical to 'grow real animals' ya old troglodyte.
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Go and work in an slaughterhouse amongst the mud, blood, shit and wailing animals, and compare that to the laboratory conditions that the bioreactors will work in. I think public reaction to cultured meat is going to move very quickly to acceptance. In a generation, eating any type of reared meat will be as disgusting to the average consumer as eating dog or horse would be now.
(Hmmm. Would a vat full of lab-grown pork to acceptable to all religions, and if so then why not a vat full of human meat?)
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Real animals take a lot of land, drugs, feed, etc. Looking at the 22 year (so far) drought in the American West,
https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu... [unl.edu]
animal meat will become more expensive.
Why would you dismiss vat-meat without trying it? If it has the same connecting cell structure and the cells are still animal cells, then you can still rip of your shirt and grunt appreciatively while eating it.
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For the same reason I avoid eating other processed foods. I do see a future for this technology, though. We can't easily haul cows into space with our current space fairing means of travel, so this plugs the gap.
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This is along the lines of the psychological concept of projection: crazy people project their personal problems onto society instead of resolving the for themselves. I'll enjoy a hamburger tonight to counter this pointless endeavor.
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"Are we too lazy to grow real animals? "
Lazy? It's about efficiency.
Some companies only need the back legs of pigs for Pata Negra Ham or San Daniele, why raise a full pig just the have to remove bones afterwards?
Or imagine just growing duck and goose-livers in a vat, that would get PETA off your back.
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If they insist on calling it meat, then it will never be in my body. Meat already should be a protected word that exclusively means the muscle or flesh of a real animal. It is already ridiculous that frozen food makers already get to call things beef that are not fully beef. Like pressed and formed beef like substance that contains a little beef. If they call it something different than meat, I'll try it and make my decision based on if I like it not. If they insist on calling it meat, then I'll boycott jus
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Boomers are not the only people capable of facing reality. Every generation has those, some more, some less, depending upon their respective levels of sheltering.
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Especially those accustomed to getting participation trophies and who haven't learned how to encounter and accept loss.
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Who gave out the trophies?
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Socialist leaning educators
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