No matter what, Bitcoin will be reliable on the US dollar for value and the IRS recently passed a new law to ensure transfers over $600 are tracked and tax accountable.

That's how you know he's selling snake oil now: The very nature of proof of stake necessarily means you will *never* fix the energy consumption problems. Not now, not in the future, not ever: as soon as someone mines faster for less power guess what? That's the new method 100% of all miners will switch to at a fairly high rate and the power consumption goes back up to unprecedented levels.

All Dorsey is doing is a more dedicated pump & dump scheme: he wants to inflate the level of his own investment by making people think he just *solved bitcoin!* and hiring engineers and ASIC manufacturers to be basically included on his song & dance show about the monorail.

We all know it ends up with Dorsey abandoning a barely functioning product and everybody reflecting on why they trusted a f-ing evil bastard with their money by investing in bitcoin when he always just wanted to run away with your money.

Dimitriid said

That's how you know he's selling snake oil now: The very nature of proof of stake necessarily means you will *never* fix the energy consumption problems. Not now, not in the future, not ever: as soon as someone mines faster for less power guess what? That's the new method 100% of all miners will switch to at a fairly high rate and the power consumption goes back up to unprecedented levels.

All Dorsey is doing is a more dedicated pump & dump scheme: he wants to inflate the level of his own investment by making people think he just *solved bitcoin!* and hiring engineers and ASIC manufacturers to be basically included on his song & dance show about the monorail.

We all know it ends up with Dorsey abandoning a barely functioning product and everybody reflecting on why they trusted a f-ing evil bastard with their money by investing in bitcoin when he always just wanted to run away with your money.

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Could you at least double-check the jargon you're trying to drop to try and sound like an authoritative critic? Proof of work is Bitcoin (and currently Eth) and functions by mining; proof of stake (which Ethereum is eventually going to transition to) does not require mining whatsoever. Unless you think proof of stake will eventually require mining, which makes as much sense as claiming that a gas-powered internal combustion engine is inevitably going to have to fall back on coal and steam to power it. It's nonsensical on its face.

As for Dorsey he's a valley snake trying to position himself as the king of Bitcoin, the way Musk is trying to be 'king of Dogecoin.' Both of them can take a flying leap into the Pacific.

Crypto isn't going away; the only ones operating on the sunk cost fallacy are its hair-tearing, teeth-gnashing critics.

Wasting energy is so wrong it needs to stop.

grumblguts said

Wasting energy is so wrong it needs to stop.

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Yes, ban gaming.

terzaerian said

Yes, ban gaming.

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A false equivalence and whataboutism all rolled into one...nice!

fps4ever said

A false equivalence and whataboutism all rolled into one...nice!

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Only if you lack reading comprehension, the ability to think critically, and are special pleading. Gaming is fundamentally a hobby of idle self-gratification and ultimately more selfish and wasteful by far, especially when you factor in the data centers powering multiplayer services and the mountains of e-waste consoles produce.

You're a fool if you think that you can ally with environmentalists to get crypto banned, and not suffer repercussions to your hobby yourself.

You and I are the carbon that they want to reduce.

terzaerian said

Only if you lack reading comprehension. Gaming is fundamentally a hobby of self-gratification and ultimately more selfish and wasteful, especially when you factor in the data centers powering multiplayer services and the mountains of e-waste consoles produce.

You're a fool if you think that you can ally with environmentalists to get crypto banned, and not suffer repercussions to your hobby yourself.

You and I are the carbon that they want to reduce.

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Unlike some of you I don't want to ban anything. I can comprehend that not everyone games 24/7 and there are also huge mining facilities/farms that do. Mining undeniably takes more energy than average gaming and creates mountains of ewaste as well. I am for saving energy however that can be accomplished. If one little comment about "stop wasting energy" triggers some crypto true believers I guess all I can say is stop having such a narrow view of everyhting.

fps4ever said

Unlike some of you I don't want to ban anything. I can comprehend that not everyone games 24/7 and there are also huge mining facilities/farms that do. Mining undeniably takes more energy than average gaming and creates mountains of ewaste as well. I am for saving energy however that can be accomplished. If one little comment about "stop wasting energy" triggers some crypto true believers I guess all I can say is stop having such a narrow view of everyhting.

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No, you just game during peak energy usage hours and otherwise consume at an unsteady rate, creating sharp peaks that force higher consumption and troughs that cause waste.

Mining consumes at a steady rate, readily suited to sustaining green sources of power. As an economic pursuit it seeks out sources of power that are cheap, plentiful, and sustainable, which is why you see mining farms cluster around solar farms, geothermal, and hydro-electric.

Gaming has clearly rotted your brain. Another point in favor of banning the pasttime. I was responding to a poster that was clearly agitating for mining to be banned.

terzaerian said

No, you just game during peak energy usage hours and otherwise consume at an unsteady rate, creating sharp peaks that force higher consumption and troughs that cause waste.

Mining consumes at a steady rate, readily suited to sustaining green sources of power. As an economic pursuit it seeks out sources of power that are cheap, plentiful, and sustainable, which is why you see mining cluster around solar farms, geothermal, and hydro-electric.

Gaming has clearly rotted your brain. Another point in favor of banning the pasttime.

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LOL peaks are bad but overall increased usage 24/7 due to mining makes it sustainably green...usage is usage, like WTF that is not good either way.

And I would suggest stopping with the personal insults...

fps4ever said

LOL peaks are bad but overall increased usage 24/7 due to mining makes it sustainably green...usage is usage, like WTF that is not good either way.

And I would suggest stopping with the personal insults...

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If you think "usage is usage" you don't understand a lot about the business of generating power.

terzaerian said

If you think "usage is usage" you don't understand a lot about the business of generating power.

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Actually yes I do...

fps4ever said

Actually yes I do...

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Then you'd know why electricity usage costs more during peak hours and costs less during off-hours.

Furthermore, power plants can't shut down or take a break during the off-hours - they still have to run and still have to generate electricity. That's power that's going nowhere and being wasted. Businesses like industry and mining farms are both ways that insure that off-hour usage doesn't go to waste. Residential users and gamers, by contrast, are almost certainly using during peak hours.

You also might have heard of this dam that managed to keep its operation in the black by mining:

terzaerian said

[link]

Then you'd know why electricity usage costs more during peak hours and costs less during off-hours.

Furthermore, power plants can't shut down or take a break during the off-hours - they still have to run and still have to generate electricity. That's power that's going nowhere and being wasted. Businesses like industry and mining farms are both ways that insure that off-hour usage doesn't go to waste. Residential users and gamers, by contrast, are almost certainly using during peak hours.

You also might have heard of this dam that managed to keep its operation in the black by mining:

[link]

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Woah, hey, don't be using logic here. Didn't you hear from the ignorant masses? Crypto is always a waste of energy and always creates carbon emissions! /s

terzaerian said

[link]

Then you'd know why electricity usage costs more during peak hours and costs less during off-hours.

Furthermore, power plants can't shut down or take a break during the off-hours - they still have to run and still have to generate electricity. That's power that's going nowhere and being wasted. Businesses like industry and mining farms are both ways that insure that off-hour usage doesn't go to waste. Residential users and gamers, by contrast, are almost certainly using during peak hours.

You also might have heard of this dam that managed to keep its operation in the black by mining:

[link]

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You are comparing peak hours with cost savings. I am talking about saving energy overall. We are talking about power companies that have to increase average 24/7 capacity plus peak hours above wasted energy. It all depends on where you get that electricity locally to what end. My hope is to get away from fossil fuels altogether. We used to have clean Nuclear plants along the Great lakes but they keep getting shutting down. Of course Hydo plants help as well. I am seeing more Wind farms that are underutilized. If we can get to the point of diminishing fossil fuel plants even more it will be a boon for everyone.

[link]

[link]

If mining can get away from using tactics like the above it might help the perception.

fps4ever said

You are comparing peak hours with cost savings. I am talking about saving energy overall. We are talking about power companies that have to increase average 24/7 capacity plus peak hours above wasted energy. It all depends on where you get that electricity locally to what end. My hope is to get away from fossil fuels altogether. We used to have clean Nuclear plants along the Great lakes but they keep getting shutting down. Of course Hydo plants help as well. I am seeing more Wind farms that are underutilized. If we can get to the point of diminishing fossil fuel plants even more it will be a boon for everyone.

[link]

[link]

If mining can get away from using tactics like the above it might help the perception.

Click to expand...

Again, like I said, mining gravitates to cheap, abundant, and sustainable sources of power because their bottom line is spending as little on power as possible while mining as much as possible. Which is part of the reason you see it moving into older power plants like that. Where you see professional miners building new power infrastructure, they are almost always choosing wind and solar.

And again, if your concern is reducing power usage overall, gaming is a bigger target. Home console and PC usage may use less per capita than a BTC miner but in aggregate it is almost certainly much higher, especially after you factor in the power usage of the data centers that are the backend for services like Xbox Live, Playstation +, and Steam.

The fact is we only know the sum total of the power usage of Bitcoin because its blockchain is transparent. The power usage of gaming is completely opaque in comparison, but considering the sector's worth and reach, at least comparable.

Good old Jack trying to stay relevant. Hopefully it all goes down in flames like Elizabeth Holmes.