6

Ask Hackaday: How Do You Keep The 3D Printer From Becoming EWaste

 3 years ago
source link: https://hackaday.com/2020/01/02/ask-hackaday-how-do-you-keep-the-3d-printer-from-becoming-ewaste/
Go to the source link to view the article. You can view the picture content, updated content and better typesetting reading experience. If the link is broken, please click the button below to view the snapshot at that time.
neoserver,ios ssh client

93 thoughts on “Ask Hackaday: How Do You Keep The 3D Printer From Becoming EWaste”

RW ver 0.0.1 says:

There’s plenty of people around who would be happy to buy a used one for ~$100… but the few sellers around seem to think that however outdated it is, it’s worth $300-ish … despite as mentioned, something now twice as capable is selling new for $200.

Colin Alston says:

Say what now? Give it to me, I’ll happily upcycle all those stepper motors!

Moryc says:

I limit number of ewasted 3D printers by not having one. And for that I have a few reasons:

1. I think that the whole 3D printing thing is overhyped. I don’t like stuff that’s overhyped.
2. Anything a 3D printer can do, can be done with CNC mill. The difference is that with mill one must plan ahead, how parts would be made and assembled to form the final product. There is also some work with choosing milling bits, drills, engravers, etc. It’s a bit more involved.
3. 3D printers are limited in the type of materials they can use. CNC mills can do all sorts of materials, including wood (which I prefer), various plastics and metals.
4. 3D printers are SLOW. And require constant observation in case something goes wrong.
5. Most people use them for the same things they could make using hand tools or CNC mills.

I’d wait maybe another 15 years for technology to really mature…

  1. Printy Din'ty says:

    I think part of the point is that CNC mills tend to be both more expensive and more involved. I’ve never seen a hackerspace with a row of CNC mills, but plenty with numerous printers. A CNC mill is an excellent tool, but only if you have access to one and can use it.

    1. Moryc says:

      Actually in my opinion and from my experience CNC mills are not that hard to use. It is a bit more involved than 3D printing, but on the other hand you can use a mill for stuff that is impossible with 3D printing. As you can use 3D printing for stuff that would be very hard and complex on mill (and would probably involve multiple different tools, molds, casts and other, fun stuff). You can get an entry-level CNC for about 500USD. Some versions even have true USB controller, which is both a good thing and disadvantage (it works only with Mach3 under Windows, so open source crowd won’t like it at all). There are cheaper machines that use aluminum extrusions, 3D printed Z-axis and spindle assembly and cheap 775 DC motor as spindle, but they are almost useless – no rigidity, especially in the assembly, and by default steppers are underpowered and overmicrostepped. Just search for CNC 3020, which has more rigid construction. I’d add to that another 100-150USD as a future cost for beefier spindle once the 300W one dies. The operating costs are just some lubrication, milling bits and stock.

      An open source alternative are MPCNC and GRBL controller. I did use GRBL and it worked fine. The machine it controller OTOH was almost useless – it required plenty of hacking…

      1. Chris says:

        I agree that 3D printing is over hyped and CNC mills are more capable, but for the average person, I disagree that they aren’t that hard to use. Work holding alone is a huge issue, often requiring designing and milling parts just to hold the part you ultimately want to make. Planning/generating tool paths takes a lot of time and consideration and can get extremely complicated if your piece isn’t simple x/y profile shapes. Then there’s the mess of chips, the cost of the tooling – I easily have more invested in end mills than I do in both my 3D printers. There’s the constant changing of end mills and having to indicate new tools between changes to continue subsequent ops. Now if you really want to cut metal, even some plastics, you’ll want flood coolant, which requires a significantly complex enclosure, the shielding of the electronics/motors, etc.

        I have both a mill and two 3D printers (one FDM, one resin). I love the mill and use it more than the printers, but zero people I know would invest the time and resources it takes to learn/use a mill over a 3D printer. They’re just totally different worlds of commitment.

        Lastly, I think you’re off on a bit of a tangent. The article is about what to do with obsolete 3d printers, and I agree with Colin – I’LL TAKE THE STEPPERS!!! :)

        1. my2c says:

          – agreed – I wouldn’t put CNC in a similar degree of difficulty (having done both). So many more complications. Work holding, tool sizes to account for (both cutting radius, and clearances before you’ll smash your collet or something into the work), feed rates (sure, 3d printers have them, but generally you can get away with defaults, and only tune if you want). Much less forgiving – don’t put enough thought into a feed rate, depth of cut, or work holding and you’re likely to break (not cheap) things. FDM, you can pretty much model it with a bit of thought into support and how it will print, and let it rip. I don’t generally closely monitor prints, but even if you want to, a RPi on a budget printer gives you wireless printing, and monitoring prints from your mobile device if wanted (given usb or pi cam).

        2. Moryc says:

          To be honest I cheat a little”
          1. I screw the stock outside the work area to the table. Usually that\s enough. If I need to machine part on different side, I cut a hole that’s negative of the new bottom and pressure-fit the part. Then I just zero the Z axis on the stock top.
          2. I have limited number of tools so I plan the job accordingly to make the least amount of tool changes.
          3. Every new tool in use is separate job, so I don’t bother with tool offsets and such. Just wait for job to finish, replace the tool, zero the Z axis and load a new job.
          4. For both CAD and CAM I use Fusion 360. IMHO the best “free” software for that kinds of work. It has some quirks and issues, like the whole “cloud” thing, tool paths requiring regeneration whenever I open a file I worked on before, etc. Open Source CAD software usually has terrible UI, bad UX and sometimes stupid basic idea making the software even harder to use, arcane and evil.

          As for feedrates that part is annoying, true. The data available is either for the most expensive tools (which I can’t even find here, much less afford them), or unreliable and imprecise. And everyone in USA still uses IPS instead of mm/min, which adds extra conversion for me. I hate Imperial system and it must die. Anyway I figured out some standard default values for stock that I use and it works so far.

          As for crashes, problem usually exists between computer and chair. With my first machine, which was weak, not stiff enough and generally a piece of junk, tools always broke on the material. With the one I have now tool usually is fine, the workpiece or stock or wooden block that holds it gets mangled.

          I need more end mills. Yesterday one job took over 1.5 hours, because I have one end mill that is too big and one that is too small. Fortunately the cheap ones I can get are good enough for materials I’m machining.

      2. Strelock says:

        MPCNC is NOT open source.

      3. Grawp says:

        Entry level CNC for 500$? In which world?! PocketNC is considered entry level and it is about 6000$ or more like 6000€ after VAT and shipping. For 500US you won’t even get one working axis DIY.

        1. Moryc says:

          The machine next to my computer begs to differ. I’ve got if for free but owner who gave it to me paid for it less than 700USD 4 years ago. I spent another 130USD to get a bigger spindle once I burned the original one.
          Just search on Ebay or Aliexpress for CNC 3020 and see for yourself.

          As for Pocket NC, it’s not an entry level machine. It’s more like semi-pro machine, being 5-asis type that can machine aluminum at decent speeds. It’s entry level when compared to machining centers that cost 10-50 times more than Pocket NC…

      4. Dan says:

        I’ve got a CNC3018. It’s not underpowered or lacking in rigidity. As I discovered when I mid-calculated and accidentally cut though my metal hold-downs.
        Hold-downs are a big issue, as is computing cutting paths for anything but the simplest shapes.
        3D printers can now handle some amount of overhang I believe, allowing shapes which are very difficult without a 5-axis CNC.

  2. sjm4306 says:

    To be fair you don’t seem like you are the target market for 3d printers so it makes sense that you wouldn’t find them as useful as say using a cnc like you mention. Every tool has its pros and cons, there are plenty of jobs where an fdm makes a ton more sense than trying to bodge a job on a cnc.

    I do a lot of rapid prototyping and with my workflow dialed in after using a 3d printer for a good 4 years I can turn a design from concept to having a working prototype in my hand in as little as an hour or two (obviously for relatively small mechanical assemblies dependent on complexity that don’t require the lowest layer height).

    Just about all the cons you’ve mentioned for 3d printing can be attributed to user error/misuse and can just as easily affect a newbie using a cnc machine. Of course if you try and use a hammer as a screw driver it’s gonna suck, but likewise trying to use a screw driver as a hammer isn’t optimal either. In the end use whatever tools you have that are best for the job.

    1. Chris Miller says:

      Agreed. I have both a 3D printer and a CNC mill. They’re good for different things, and I’m happy to be able to use each of them for their own specialties.

  3. mrehorst says:

    3D printing parts is a lot faster and easier and requires a lot less knowledge and skill than operating a mill, either manual or CNC.

    Slow is relative. Milling a complex part is also a slow process and even a CNC mill requires a lot of user intervention. A 3D printer can be started up and left alone for hours or days (if it’s a well made printer, like the ones I build) while you go do something else. You don’t have to watch a well made printer.

    I’ve built and used 3D printers, and used manual and CNC mills, and can tell you that a 3D printer is definitely faster and easier to use for most jobs. I use whichever tool is best suited for the job, but 80% of the time, the 3D printer can produce an adequate part for whatever I’m doing.

    I think that if you tried one out you’d find that it’s surprisingly easy to use and quite practical. Nope, you aren’t going to make high precision stuff or engine parts on it, but there are a lot of jobs that can be done and done well.

    1. Foldi-One says:

      Agree entirely on picking the best tool for each job, printing often being adequate and slow being relative – Just because most cuts on a mill take a handful of mins, for every complex part you can spend hours getting it re-positioned for the next cuts. And many extra hours in part design figuring out how to make this complex geometry in multiple parts for later assembly. With a good 3d printer do the part design (often without needed to care about its geometry at all) and then just tell the machine to print.. Come back tomorrow and its done. With CNC you still have to do the part design but because of the massive limitations a cnc mill imposes you end up having to really spend time thinking about the fabrication process so that step takes much longer.. And then you have to do all the manual setup for each cnc step.. Man hours CNC is hugely worse always (though frequently worth the time as the parts can be made in the best materials)!

      As for precision define ‘high precision’ FDM machines can match or even exceed milling in precision depending on a great many factors like depth and widths of features and value of the machine (a stupidly expensive really good mill will be stiff enough to take the cutting force without deflection but one more comparable to 3d printer pricing won’t be able to easily).. And the uv cure resins can offer stupid precision levels..

      The biggest gain to 3d printing is the crazy geometries that a cnc mill could never do in one part.
      Biggest gain to CNC is nothing to do forming the shape, but the much wider variety of materials that can be worked.

  4. Norbert says:

    That were my thoughts as well (at least a couple of them), until I received my first filament printer. I now see them as the better machines than CNC mills:

    1. Less waste material – subtractive manufacturing leaves lots of waste.
    2. Not so loud – you can operate a 3D printer without disgruntling your neighbourhood.
    3. Less dangerous to handle – a printhead might burn your fingers, a spindle can hurt it even more.
    4. Routing something in 2.5D with a CNC mitt takes time as well and you can’t let it run without constant observation.

    I should have started 3D printing even sooner than I actually did.

  5. sneakypoo says:

    1. Come back in from the lawn gramps, it’s winter and cold outside.
    2. Well that’s simply not true. Most things, sure, but not when you start taking advantage of the opportunities the tech exposes. Big companies don’t have machine parks full of printers worth millions just for giggles (well, I’ve worked with companies that do, but that’s beside the point :D ).
    3. I’ll give you wood, that’s a bit tricky. But plastics, composites, “rubbers” (I bet machining a block of Shore 50A plastic is pretty tricky, especially when you want details on the sub-millimeter scale) and metallics are all available.
    4. Slow is a relative term. While you are planning, setting up, and afterwards assembling your parts, the printer will have been printing for a few days already. Sure, if we’re talking about a very simple part with little to no planning, a CNC will likely win, but once things start getting complicated that’s a different matter. If we’re talking about a run of many of the same part where the process is dialed in, the CNC will have an advantage, but when we start talking custom parts things change a bit.
    And no, a quality printer doesn’t need to be monitored any more than a CNC mill would need to be.
    5. Hobbyists, sure.

    In the end though, it’s all just tools. You use whatever tool is the best for the job, in some cases that’s a hammer, in other cases it’s a scalpel. There’s no wrong or right, just a sliding scale of applicability and strengths. Many people suffer from the “everything looks like a nail”-syndrome once they get a printer.

    1. Moryc says:

      Ad. 1. I’m 34, and what winter?! It’s 8 degrees C here! And 3D printing is overhyped. It used to be used only by big companies for prototyping products that would end up being machined or molded (depending on type of product and material). Now every company, every hobbyist and every start-up tries their best to use them as main production tools, even if it doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.
      Ad. 2. Big companies can afford big, powerful 3D printers. They can also have machining centers and other tools that are beyond hobbyists or even some semi-professionals.
      Ad. 3. Show me an entry level 3D printer that could do metals. And I wouldn’t machine semi-rigid materials – I would mill a mold for them.
      Ad. 4. From my experience the slowest operations are always the most complex ones, like 3D carving with ball end mill. Still it might be comparable or faster than 3D printing. The only big waste of time on hobby mill is the setup, like reversing the stock to mill the other side. But that could also be solved with some clever thinking. I’m working on a custom keyboard from wood – to mill the bottom side of keys I’ll mill a hole for them in piece of stock and then put them one at a time and run the finishing job.
      Ad. 5. Most of HaD readers are hobbyists.

      On that last point I agree with you. 3D printer is just a tool, useful in some contexts, but it’s not a replacement for every other tool, especially when we are talking about entry-level, hobbyist machines. Yet people try to 3D print just about anything, even though it makes no sense from the engineering (or economic) point of view.

      1. Greg says:

        > *Now every company, every hobbyist and every start-up tries their best to use them as main production tools*

        That’s wild hyperbole. Yes, some people overdo it, especially people who’ve never actually used 3D printing and just have heard of it, but the limitations are well-known.

      2. Chris says:

        #3 – Show me a metal-capable mill, that doesn’t require all kinds of upgrades in motors, ways, stiffeners, etc., with tooling, that costs less than 10x what an entry level 3D printer does. You can’t, just like no one can show you an entry level 3D printer that can do metals. The question is absurd.

        I have a Taig CNC mill, which is about the stiffest complete CNC mill you can get before the price increases dramatically. It cost $2600 between the mill and controllers. I spent another $1.2 to 1.5k building an enclosure with flood coolant to cut metals reliably well. And I have at least $1k in end mills and probably another $1k in fixture plates, clamps and accessories. That’s upwards of $6000+. Of course it’s more capable than a $300 3D printer. To suggests that reflects poorly on the 3D printer is ridiculous.

        1. Moryc says:

          I didn’t try aluminum yet, but someone else did. His machine is almost identical to mine, but he upgraded the spindle to 1kW water-cooled model. He can do aluminum and other soft metals at low feed rates (IIRC 120-240mm/min), 20k RPM and depth of cut no higher than 0,3mm. He uses vacuum to remove the chips instead of flood coolant. I think I might be able to do the same at even lower feed rate and DoC. So I’d rather make molds to cast the part with wax and then use lost wax method. It’s done that way in industry…

          Come to think I actually machined aluminum once. I accidentally crashed into the bed, but tool survived without damage… ;)

      3. cliff claven says:

        Well, I gotta say that you have a good way to go growing up. I’ve been in machine work, hobby and professional, longer than you have been alive, and my introduction to 3d printing (FDM) was in the mid-1990’s.

        You keep dodging and weaving here. Your original claims were that 3d printing is overhyped (opinion, but I tend to agree, especially at the consumer/hobby level, and irrelevant to the article), that 3d printing can nothing that milling machine can (demonstrably false, and irrelevant), 3d printers are limited in the materials they can use (debatable on the whole, but true at the hobby price point, and irrelevant to the original article), 3d printers are slow (debatable– it depends on the material, design, and intent, and, yet again not relevant), and that most people use them for things that hand or CNC tools could be used for misdirection, not relevant, and just plain dumb, as a 3d printer IS a CNC tool.)

        Please, give it a rest. We all know that consumer grade FDM 3D printers are not in the same league as a $US100K Haas. But they can still do things the Haas can’t, and are not comparable, as the Haas is $US100K, and the consumer grade machine is $US300.

        Yes, these machines are used to make a lot of trinkets. So? You need to start somewhere. Ten years ago, the consumer grade machines were really not up to the task for parts with good, predictable mechanical properties. Now they are, within the material characteristics and skill of the user. Even the $US300 units (my low end import has made parts that are in some pretty intense manufacturing environments, for example)

        Really. Let it go. You aren’t impressing anyone.

  6. cliff claven says:

    As several others have said (more politely): Ok, whatever

    To actually address your statements:
    1) Yes, overhyped, but that is not a reason to accept or reject the tech. Happy logical fallacy.
    2) No. Absolutely not the case. This is why, despite having a full machine shop, I also have and use an FDM printer.
    3) Not really. It depends on how much you are willing to pay, just like with a CNC mill. I can pay $US2K and get a desktop, small envelope 3 axis mill, or $US150K on up for a Haas machining center.
    4) Again, depends on the situation and the machines being compared. Apples to abstract algebra comparison, here.
    5) Happy logical fallacy number two. Most people use their car for the same things they could do with a bicycle, or by walking.

  7. I have a CNC machine and 3D printers. The CNC is the thing that requires constant observation. And you left out fixturing from your list, which is by far the biggest pain. I can just do a calculation to get my milling speed, doesn’t help me try to get stuff fixed and flat. Also, there are lots of practically useful shapes that my 3 axis CNC can’t do, and no good open source software for > 3 axis CAM. I’ll continue happily using my 3D printers whenever I reasonably can, thanks.

    1. smellsofbikes says:

      I use my 3d printer for making fixtures for my cnc mill, as it happens. If you’re not hogging out a lot of stuff but just need to take a thin cut off something, like, say, a lost-PLA aluminum casting that needs a face flycut, a big 3d printed fixture with the inverse shape to the workpiece sure saves a ton of time. I did a custom thermostat housing for an antique car recently, and fixturing something with a hemispherical bottom with a hose pipe attachment sticking out at a weird angle would have been an awful task with standard clamp downs or a vise. Printing two 3d shells that clamped on either side and then fit in the vise was easy and plenty stiff enough to remove 0.1mm off the bottom to get a great surface for the water gasket.

  8. Red-Fathom says:

    I guess, but I cast an intake for my Austin(lost pla) in one piece that no cnc would have been able to cut for about $500 printer included. So I don’t see the need for a cnc mill. Not to mention the cost in time multiple processes would take for more complex shapes.

    Also, wood? what’s that good for? You mean cnc router?

    1. Moryc says:

      Couldn’t you obtain the spare part?
      And I never wrote that 3D printers are useless or bad. They just ain’t for me, at least not for now…

      Yes, wood. And yes, a 3 axis CNC milling machine. Today I did a soap mold from piece of alder fence. Most of things I do are 2D and 2.5D cuts and carvings, some engravings too. But from time to time I do a 3D carvings…

      1. Ren says:

        “Couldn’t you obtain the spare part?”

        Maybe [Red-Fathom] was making a stream lined induction, or adding a blower/compressor, or turbo, or fuel injectors to an engine originally carbureted…

        1. Inhibit says:

          Or their doing a short production run. To create and sell the spare part. :)

      2. Red-Fathom says:

        It’s for a 67 Austin fx4 they don’t make upgrades and the intake bolts to the exhaust with a “hot spot” to heat the single tinny zenith carburetor. It floods out alot.

        See I have no use for 3d carvings, but law of the hammer.

  9. smellsofbikes says:

    I have a CNC mill. I’d like to see you mill an engine head with internal water passages. I 3d printed it in multiple pieces, placed in baked sand cores, closed it up, coated it in Plasticast, burnt out the 3d printed form, and cast the head. Then I put it on my CNC mill and cleaned up the sealing faces. (It is possible to mill some internal water passages if you’re willing to accept welding on side panels afterwards, and then dealing with welding-induced geometry changes, but it is not easy and you can’t get good coolant flow.)
    I don’t have the money for a Haas. As a result, my 3d printers are _much_ faster in making a complex shape than my CNC mill is, because I have to make multiple fixtures to hold the workpiece securely. And the total price of both 3d printers was less than the price of a replacement servo motor and amp for the mill.

    1. Moryc says:

      I was actually considering making my own model internal combustion engine, or at least a few steam engines of different constructions. But I can’t cast metals in the apartment building. Something about fire safety…

      1. John Wilson says:

        You could probably do it once.

  10. Spencer Hamblin says:

    3D printers and CNC machines complement each other very nicely. A CNC is more involved and time consuming but you get a part with better finish and strength. The noise and dust also shuts down that section of the house when it use. 3D printers are easier to use and require far less operator time. Almost set and forget.

    For a more professional looking product I’ll use the CNC for the exterior and the 3D printer for internal parts. 3D printing is also great for testing the fit and look of CNC parts before you spend the time and effort to machine it. Both good machines but I don’t feel that either of them is a replacement for the other.

  11. Colin Alston says:

    I think it is not over hyped. Not anymore. It certainly was but the market has settled down into well defined feature sets, use cases and reliable manufacturers.

    At the beginning it was very hard to be sure the manufacturer you bought your printer from would still be in business the following year. This was important with various old-school thought trying to grab parts of the market and bringing the same s**t as the inkjet market – closed source drivers, locked in filament, etc. Those companies are mostly dead and forgotten, and I don’t think anyone will miss them. Yes I made the mistake of buying an XYZprinting printer as my entry into the hobby. It was initially great but the filament lock-in became unacceptable to me because after the hype they started to fade so I couldn’t even readily buy their stupid RFID tagged spools. Yes there were some “hacks” to change that but really they weren’t feasible, it is extremely difficult. So I tore it apart, chucked the injection moulded casing into the recycling bin and had a bunch of nice motion control bits that could be made into anything as long as I had a… uh… 3d printer.

    So I got an Wanhao i3+ and it was my workhorse for 3 years. I upgraded and upgraded it until there was barely any of the original left. And that is the ultimate thing with 3d printers – with the huge amount of open work and sharing in the community they are almost never obsolete being able to literally print their own upgrade parts.

    I started out printing stupid dogs and things of Thingiverse, eventually I was designing my own things and having a device that turned my CAD creations into a physical thing is a feeling nothing short of magic. I started designing things for friends, everything from new parts, cookie cutters, replacements for silly things. You have no idea how amazed someone is when they have broken a stupid clip on a TV remote or clothes dryer and you say “Oh that’s no problem, give it to me and I’ll just print you a new one over the weekend”. I have saved many times more than my printers value in being able to replace small plastic parts of more expensive items.

    When you have a 3D printer and are happy to help people you are never short of friends. Especially those in other hobbies like drone racing where they break small plastic parts frequently and the manufacturers charge unreasonable amounts for replacements because they would rather you buy a whole new one.

    Where it does not make sense for someone to setup a whole supply and logistics chain for a small item that is where a 3D printer has been a game changer.

    I don’t buy a case for a raspberry pi, I can have one in ~2 hours off my printer bed. I don’t have to worry about trying to find small volumes of metal shim stock (which is very difficult in many places!) or cutting my thumb off in a CNC or having a big bending jig and whatever just to make a better stand for my iPhone.

    It is absolutely untrue that a CNC can do all the same things as a 3D printer. It can not produce hollow voids. It can not resolve complex overhangs or internal details. Unless you have a $6,000+ 5 axis CNC you can not even deal with some simple features that a $200 3D printer can do in stride with far less power usage, noise, mess and space.

    1. Moryc says:

      You almost convinced me to buy a 3D printer. Unfortunately they are still a bit expensive here and expensive to operate too. Actually I think they are great if you need a single, custom part or prototype. I did that twice by ordering them from makers who run businesses off their 3D printers…

      As for things you can do with 3D printing, well it can be done with substractive machining as well as with additive. The way you do it is a bit complicated: you split your design into pieces hat can actually be machined on the machine you have, and then you assemble them into one part. And you can’t actually make overhands and internal empty spaces with FDM printer without adding plenty of supports or lattice fillings. You can them only the way I can. With FDM. that is…

      1. Colin Alston says:

        With the right filament, cooling, a darn good extruder (I was using a Flexion which is about the best out there) you can achieve impressive bridges and internal features. It is true you can’t do a 90 degree overhang on an edge which you could do with a CNC and the right bits.

        But I’ve also never seen a CNC make a benchy boat in one pass without tool or fixture changes ;)

        It’s all just the right tools for the job, but loads of us weirdos out here enjoy 3D printing just for the sake of 3D printing.

  12. Osgeld says:

    heh I wanted an adapter bracket to shove a AM4 cooler on a AM3 board, not having the board or heat sink on hand (lunch break at work) I looked it up, first one that popped up was a 3d printed model

    when I got home I flattened the mesh printed it out to scale and made it out of 3mm acrylic as it was just 2 almost L brackets with 4 holes in each, took a whole 20 min and I even sanded the edges nice n smmof. That would have taken at least 2 hours to print according to cura

  13. Lufo says:

    Add another reason:

    6. There are plenty of “clubs” or technical associations that have quality 3D printers available to use (for a small fee/membership).

    1. Moryc says:

      None near me, AFAIK. Nearest hackerspace or similar thing is about 50km from my town…

      I ordered a 3D printed parts thrice. First part was flawed design and didn’t last very long. Before I redesigned it, I’ve got the item I tried to build from scratch. The second part was actually a new X-axis assembly for my first, terrible CNC. Original was also made of 3D print, so I thought “why not”? First print was beautiful, very smooth, I paid 25 bucks and got smoothing for free. Turned out the person who made it messed up scale in one direction so all round holes were oval. I discovered this after hammering in a linear bearing. Second attempt with different maker worked much better…

  14. Jake says:

    Irrelevant. Just because you don’t use them doesn’t mean they aren’t going to be millions of peoples ewaste. Furthermore your comments are inaccurate and misleading. I have fadal 3016 and a $350 fdm printer cr-10s. They both have their place.

  15. Ed Paulsen says:

    I politely disagree…

    1. I will agree that the 3D printing trend was far overhyped for the average person to use. These are not “Star Trek Replicators”, they are machine tools

    2. I can point out a plethora of shapes that are not possible in any way via a CNC mill and can show supporting documentation from the industrial sources. The simplest being complex geometries within an internal cavity within a single piece part.

    3. Most *Hobbyist* 3D printers are limited in materials. Industrial ones are not, many are already printing many metals including stainless steel as well as ceramics and others NOT possible through CNC mills.

    4. CNC mills (and lathes) are SLOW too, requiring vast attention to detail in planning out the sequence of steps required for a given part as well as tooling changes. there is also the issues of pre-setup and post production operations as well. Most of them also require attention in case “something goes wrong” because some failures can be far more catastrophic and destructive.

    5. Interesting that you cite “most people” when engineers have been using 3D printing for rapid prototyping for decades… mainly due to the aforementioned time involved between iterations for standard machining practices and difficulties thereof.

    Considering that the tech has actually been around for several decades, much of the tech is already fully mature… the difference involved is bringing it down in price from the $10,000 to $50,000 industrial grade machines into the hobbyist market… THAT is where it is still fairly new… THAT is where the new markets are opening up… and the very capabilities it offers are the reason why it is growing. It is still a pricey endeavor to get a decent quality manual mill or lathe, not even talking about full CNC variants, plus the time and learning required to operate the equipment.

    Finally, this is yet another machine tool to add to the arsenal of existing equipment… it has advantages and disadvantages just like a mill or lathe (CNC or otherwise) Each one has a niche that it was created to fill.

  16. Jon Titus says:

    Amen. I have often wondered why I might need a 3D printer. Either I’m not that creative or I can make a part some other way. I’m more “electrical” than “mechanical” anyway. A mini-mill, a mini-lathe, and a few other tools do the trick if I need something substantial.


report

Recommend

About Joyk


Aggregate valuable and interesting links.
Joyk means Joy of geeK