Ask HN: Where can I live off 1k USD per month?
Ask HN: Where can I live off 1k USD per month?
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333 comments I'm planing on taking some serious time off to work on my side projects.
I'm open to any country in the world, I want to just work on my games. So with that in mind I'll need good internet access. From what I can see, this is very doable in Eastern Europe.
Eventually, I do plan on returning to the US, but I want to spend at least 6 months overseas.
I live in Korea. Some months my total expenses are as low as $400 while living comfortably. If I spent $1000 in a month, I spent a lot of money. I'd say my average monthly living expenses are $600-$800. My main expenses are food/entertainment, and I eat out a lot (50% of meals).
Housing is probably the biggest living expense. I take advantage of Korea's interesting rental system called Cheonsae:
Basically, if you put down a huge deposit (like $90,000: 50% to 90% of the value of the property), you don't pay any monthly rent and get the entire deposit back when you move out. My place has a $50 monthly management fee, but that includes high-speed internet. (So I joke that I get free housing with my internet.)
Of course, there is an opportunity cost because that deposit could have generated interest, but I figure the break-even point is 12% APY. (It is possible to lower the deposit by increasing monthly rent.) So it's advantageous to take out a bank loan at 2-4% interest to pay for the deposit.
There is a small risk you won't be able to get your deposit back if the owner mismanages their finances. I believe the Korean government actually guarantees housing deposits up to $50,0000 or so. In Korea, the tenants actually do background checks on the landlords! The minimum deposit is usually $10,000, so landlords usually don't scrutinize tenants.
Just for the record, I don't think that South Korea is particularly cheap. As OP demonstrates, one can live there for USD 1000/month, but that really holds for most countries. While the US is in the top 5% in terms of nominal GDP per capita, South Korea is in the top 15%. For cheap, yet comfortable and safe, I'd aim around the median, eg Indonesia or Georgia.
ETA: Nomadlist suggests €1,925/mo for Seoul, €1,530/mo for Jeju Island, South Korea; €1,047/mo for Tbilisi, Georgia; €627/mo for Bandung, Indonesia.
ETA: Nomadlist has a list of places below USD 1000/mo: https://nomadlist.com/places-on-a-budget
Since you seem to be informed here, how would one look for places like this that are explicitly
not hot & humid, or nearly tropical locations? Effectively a climate and geography filter on this site with "has winters, mountains, summer highs typically < 90 degrees"
Nomadlist is often way off on their estimates. I'd suggest using it for inspiration only and then see prices on Numbeo
Off in one direction or just randomly?
Too high. For example, for my home city there is a figure that would be the 90th percentile net salary
I always thought that's by design - that's the cost of a nomad living there for a short period of time
In my experience of living in Shanghai, Nomadlist and Numbeo estimates are way too high. That's not to say that rich expats aren't actually paying those prices (someone must've entered them, right?) but if you're willing to shop around and learn the local language so you don't get ripped off like an ignorant foreigner, you should be able to get things much cheaper.
> but if you're willing to
Isn't this just capturing the difference between short(ish term vs long term relocation? Places like Nomadist are aimed at the first category, not "what's the cheapest you can live in city X", no?
Give Busan some consideration.
You don't have to live in the capital of Georgia (or Korea for that matter). Just a little outside the capital is already much more reasonable. You also don't have to maintain 100% "western" standard of living either, seeing that you aren't in the West. Very few people in Georgia make 1000+ euro, and they're doing OK with less. In rural Georgia you'd be living like royalty with that kind of monthly spend. It's also beautiful, and people are real nice. The only thing to watch out for is, of course, the internet.
If you're ok with Georgia, you should check out Batumi. It's a bustling coastal city that's seen impressive growth since independence. It's also pretty close to Turkey, so there are land routes to Trabzon (and flights from there to Istanbul).
Batumi is also known as Colchis, the destination for the Argonauts in Greek Mythology, so plenty of history & culture and great food.
The Grand Tour did a special driving through Georgia to Azerbaijan if you want to get a feel for what the region looks like:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6068920/
> Basically, if you put down a huge deposit (like $90,000: 50% to 90% of the value of the property), you don't pay any monthly rent and get the entire deposit back when you move out.
That's kind of a strange system. Any idea how it evolved there? Basically sounds like the landlord has to invest the money in such a way as to get a return that would be equivalent to rent but also safe enough so that they can return the deposit. I don't think I'd want to be a landlord there.
I believe the system started when there were double digit interest rates (in the 80's?).
Now interest rates are much lower, but Koreans got used to paying $0 rent and anything above that feels like they are being ripped off.
One reason landlords like the system is because they can daisy-chain the purchase of multiple properties. They take the first cheonsae deposit and use it to purchase another property, then use the cheonsae deposit from the 2nd property to purchase a 3rd property, and so on...
Even if landlords don't receive monthly rent, they expect to earn money on the increased value of the property. Cheonsae contracts are normally 2 years, then they can ask for more deposit or sell the property for a profit.
More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeonse
> One reason landlords like the system is because they can daisy-chain the purchase of multiple properties. They take the first cheonsae deposit and use it to purchase another property, then use the cheonsae deposit from the 2nd property to purchase a 3rd property, and so on...
That sounds like it’d be a disaster during a liquidity crunch.
It becomes a too-big-to-fail system, with the government stepping in as needed (implicit subsidy).
This is the natural outcome of building an economy based on usury/interest, which is exactly what this transaction is.
This reads like a Ponzi scheme, if you consider the tenants as investors.
In a country with the third highest population density in the world and a solid advanced economy? (discounting city-states and low-population states)
There are worse places to make that bet.
If everyone makes the same bet, it can still lead to disaster (real estate must rise! Let's all speculate on real estate! --> eventual disaster).
Or let's put it this way: a rational bet is something like, this thing is worth $50 now, it will be worth at least $100 later. An irrational bet is one like "this thing will be worth more over and over again!" If everyone things like that, then the thing's price will keep rising until the bubble bursts.
That sounds like the reasoning used in the US before the big 2008 housing market crash.
Maybe I'm missing something here, and I just read the Wikipedia article you linked. If the landlord takes the cash and buys the property, then the cash is gone and there is no cash to get interest on. Does the landlord just pocket the property appreciation?
In a way yes. But its also using leverage to amplify your gains.
Say I get $90,000 to go buy a house, I spend the $90,000 and have 1 door. I get a tenant in it and they make a $90,000 down payment. I then go buy another house and get another tenant in it and they make a $90,000 down payment. I now have two houses and still have the same amount of money I started with, I can continue this cycle and as long as property appreciates I don't just get the property appreciation from one house I get it from all of the houses so (% appreciation * property value * number of properties).
Say it is a $100,000 property and it appreciates 3%. If I had just bought one house and put the money in an interest yielding savings account I would get some low % return. If I instead chained it to acquire 10 houses I would get $30,000 return, which is 30%. But if the value of the house goes down it works against me!
Obviously this ignores transaction costs, interest costs etc.
> they can daisy-chain the purchase of multiple properties. They take the first cheonsae deposit and use it to purchase another property
And then they have to return the deposit eventually... how is this different from a Ponzi scheme? :P
You ask jokingly, but the serious answer is that there's an actual scarce asset behind it. Sort of like Bitcoin ;) Whether the scheme artificially inflates the value of the asset remains to be seen of course. I feel the fact that the contracts usually only last 2 years or less really takes the sting out of the risk of collapse, but I'm no economist. Also if it's been going on since the 80's, that means it's been going strong through 30 years of turbulent economical climates.
But why couldn't the renter use the deposit to buy a house instead?
It makes zero sense to me that you would have 80% or even 50% of a property’s market value and not just buy the place as opposed to letting someone else.
Do they not do home mortgages in South Korea? Are properties expected to go down in price?
Whether properties are expected to go down in price or not doesn’t change the fact that their is always a risk that property drops in price.
It would affect whether or not someone feels like buying it.
Since you seem to get the whole deposit back, it seems like it'd be preferable to rent in many situations if the landlord still assumes liabilities (repairs, disasters, etc) and the costs associated with them. If it's "free" to live there either way, I'd rather someone else cough up 10k for a new AC, heater, etc.
Why would you not want to pay more rent and invest the rest of the savings yourself? The landlord (at least in the US) almost always has to pick up the tab for all those repairs anyway.
You also get to avoid the risk of the landlord not giving you a large sum of money back.
Risk… you are exposed to the risk of decreasing property values if you buy.
Maybe buying a house would be less liquid?
Sounds like a recipe for a housing market collapse...
> That's kind of a strange system. Any idea how it evolved there? Basically sounds like the landlord has to invest the money in such a way as to get a return that would be equivalent to rent but also safe enough so that they can return the deposit. I don't think I'd want to be a landlord there.
I was thinking the same, but here's another way of framing it: they're like real estate agents [1] in the US, except that instead of keeping a 2.5%–5% commission at every sale, they keep the capital gains. They may not need to invest deposits at all to make money.
To me renting under this system doesn't seem clearly better than buying. You're paying most of the money to buy the property, but it's not an investment. You can't come out ahead. But at least there's no risk or hassle of doing property maintenance.
[edit: no, I just saw yongjik's comment: "Under the 'jeonse' system, if the landlord becomes bankrupt, the renter is suddenly out of a large portion of their total wealth, and will be evicted by the new owner - without any money to find the next place. (There are insurances to protect renters but the risk is still there.)" I don't think I'd like to rent under this system at all.]
[1] and property managers who handle repairs and such, but that's probably not how they make their money at $50/month.
I believe the system was adopted in the old days with very high interest rates (~10% was common) - landlords could easily expect to make enough return.
It's actually greatly favorable to landlords. Just think about what happens when one side is out of money. Under the monthly rent system, landlords can't get any more money until they evict the renter (which is a lot of hassle, anywhere in the world). Under the "jeonse" system, if the landlord becomes bankrupt, the renter is suddenly out of a large portion of their total wealth, and will be evicted by the new owner - without any money to find the next place.
(There are insurances to protect renters but the risk is still there.)
Would the new landlord inherit the liabilities of the house?
Not an expert, but I think there's a good chance the renter will lose money. When this happens, the landlord usually has more debt than the house is worth, so the renter has to compete with other lenders. (There's some legal protection, but I don't think it's bulletproof.)
Seems similar to a leasehold purchase which is common in commercial real estate.
Thank you! Now I understand rent fraud (as seen in "Stranger"
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt6461346/ ). I couldn't understand how
rent fraud could end up costing someone
all their life savings - but now I see.
If I'm putting 90% of the value, why don't I just add another 10% and buy the property outright? Are there restrictions on who can buy a house/apartment in Korea?
You perhaps missed that you get the
whole deposit back. The landlord doesn't keep it. You could buy the property outright, or you could live somewhere for essentially free, as long as you don't value the interest on that cash more than you value the place you're staying.
Giving that much money to a landlord is absolutely terrifying to me given the history of landlords I’ve had. I’d much rather own the property and deal with any transaction costs associated with selling.
Basically, nobody wants to admit that their own country's long established and respected systems are ponzi schemes.
Many South Korean landlords are underwater on a bad investment and use the next renter's deposit to pay out the last. Citation not possible.
The point of the system was to spur investment in the south korean economy.
next question: how would one go about betting on Korean residential mortgage credit spreads as an American retail investor?
Still, why not pay 10% more and own the building? You could still get the money back (and hopefully more) when you sell it again.
I'd imagine transaction costs on real estate are high...maybe even approaching 10%.
Transaction costs, taxes, maintenance, interest opportunity cost, etc. all of the same reasons that it might be cheaper to rent in the USA than buy.
Or potentially a lot less. The idea that real estate always goes up doesn't match reality.
Didn’t miss it, just also noted that if the landlord loses the money or goes bankrupt or just skips town, in a foreign country without strong connections and shaky command of the language, you are likely screwed.
Sounds like a too good to be true situation...
That sounds strange, what's in it for the landlord?
Opportunity cost. Landlord can use the money to invest elsewhere and make more than the minimum 12% APY.
It is like 0% interest loan for the length of the tenant stay.
Interest income on the deposit.
No credit risk from the tenant.
Not quite sure what the exact laws are, but generally the landlord fixes stuff. They will even replace lightbulbs, within reason. If there is a small thing I can fix on my own, I'll just do it myself.
Usually there is a monthly management fee that ranges from $50 to $100+ dollars that covers cleaning of common areas, repairs, etc.
The maths behind this is similar to UK leasehold. With a leasehold (which is a truly terrible system) you pay as if you're buying the flat, but actually you only have a lease usually with a very small annual payment and some management charges. The catch is the lease only lasts usually 99 years and for various legal reasons you have to renew it before it drops below 80 years, and that costs a bunch of money.
Leaseholders are called "homeowners" but they don't really own the home in the normal sense and are closer to long term renters in their rights.
I always found that system super interesting!
What would the equivalent rent have been for the place you live in for free (with 90k deposit)?
In nominal terms the S&P500 would do 10% a year or so on average. Over the past decade it's been 14.7%, so that $90k would've returned 13k a year on average.
In general I feel South Korea has been a great value for money location, if you bring external capital. If I compare it to neighbouring Japan for example, prices seem so much more affordable. Of course the working culture is not easy, but for OP it'd be a great choice.
If property returns around 5% per year, lending $90k for a stay would be around $4.5k per year and represent perhaps a $375 monthly apartment. Given that you are not even paying fully for the apartment, this makes it possibly even more valuable.
This can be considered quite decent given that there is more or less no risk involved.
An index fund may generate higher returns maybe even 7% but given the low risk the system may be generous. As an institution it may of course beg other questions if the money is well invested, if it creates a bubble etc.
Housing returns:https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w24112/w241...
S&P : https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average...
Korea is something I have on my mind for so long. I would love a detailed blog post regarding your experience living in Korea as an expat with breakdown of cost and how you ended up there. Seems like an interesting journey to know about.
How do you stay there? Just in an education visa?
Thank you. Reading it right now.
That seems like a very very good idea.
I wouldn't do it unless I had a partner who is already a citizen , but I'll definitely keep this in mind.
How much is rent if I didn't want to deposit that much ?
The general formula to convert from housing deposit to monthly rent is $10,000 deposit equals $50 monthly rent. (Until recently it was $100 rent). It's possible to find lower, but $10,000 is usually the minimum deposit.
Housing costs will vary greatly depending on location. $90,000 is in Gimpo, just outside of Seoul. Busan is probably half the cost of Seoul, and outside any major metro areas it's probably even lower.
Also even within the same real estate market prices vary greatly depending on the neighborhood, type, and size of unit. Another major factor is distance to nearest public transportation (subway).
Another thing to note is since monthly rent is usually more profitable for landowners, there is a movement away from the cheonsae system. However, I was still able to find plenty of options exactly one year ago.
Good luck with any cheonsae, you are dealing with Koreans, and there is a chance that deposit won't be there waiting for you or that company just disappearing.
12% is pretty high yield for the modern/western world. South Korea central rate is %0.75 according to Google. Where does the 11.25% come from?
That is exactly my point. There is an opportunity cost in keeping a large deposit (lost interest/investment opportunities). However that opportunity earn a certain APY in order to be a better "investment" than the housing deposit (a penny saved is a penny earned):
- $10,000 additional deposit reduces monthly rent by $50.
- 50 * 12 = 600
- 600/10,000 = 6%
The monthly rent reduction used to be $100 per $10,000. So it used to be 12%. I guess the break-even point is 6%, now...
Concrete example: I could reduce the deposit from $90,000 to $10,000. But then my rent would go from $0/month to $400/month. So by keeping a large deposit, I save $4800/year in rent.
11.25% is the imputed value of $0 rent after down payment.
> Basically, if you put down a huge deposit (like $90,000: 50% to 90% of the value of the property), you don't pay any monthly rent and get the entire deposit back when you move out.
So you're giving them a usurious loan basically.
How is a zero interest loan usurious?
Interest doesn't have to be money, it's any benefit received for giving a loan. In this case, the benefit received is staying in the apartment unit in exchange for the loan.
Interesting. So it’s like buying a place with a guaranteed buyer on the other side but no upside n the value of the house increasing. I don’t think I would want to live in that situation. It’s not like houses are that hard to sell.
I’m guessing this is outside of Seoul. It’s been a decade since I visited Seoul and while I remember it being surprisingly affordable, I don’t remember it being
that affordable in Seoul.
I can easily imagine somewhere outside Seoul/Jeju/Busan being surprisingly affordable
Correct: I'm in Gimpo, but it's not far from Seoul. Kind of like the Seoul metro area or a suburb. I can get to Seoul by public transportation (subway/bus) within an hour. And the fare is only $2-3.
And I was a little fast and loose with the KRW-USD conversion. I opted for the simple 1USD == 1000KRW, so the actual numbers are a little higher.
Poland is doable if you stay out of major cities. You can rent a studio for $300 (incl. all utilities). Food, if you cook, will cost you $200-$250 ($300-$400 if you don't cook and want to eat out only). Wired Internet and cell phone will be around $20. State-provided health insurance is about $120 per month (this is "socialized medicine", so it provides everything with no deducible, up to treating cancer etc.), but can possibly be gamed - there are loopholes that de facto allow you to pay insurance only once you need it (may be too hard to navigate for someone who's not a native speaker though). Btw the health insurance is "free" if you get any kind of job, even working couple hours a week.
Also, Poland should be a great place to actually run your game studio company from, as the tax on "IT innovation" (should not be hard to include games in this category) is only 6% - everything after that ends up in your pocket (i.e. no further dividend tax etc is required).
Assuming you won't be getting a car, public transit and Uber/taxis are affordable as well - a 5 km trip via Uber should perhaps be around $4.
I suspect other countries in the region should have similar numbers. Healthcare system and tax incentives should definitely be the biggest differentiator.
As a Pole myself, I’d add two things: it is generally a lovely country, lots of beautiful countryside etc. Less “spectacular”, more “cozy” etc. People are a bit uncertain of new things (eg foreigners in a new town) but generally warm and helpful eventually.
That said, I’d you’re not white and straight, small towns could be very unwelcoming, from people staring, to telling you to go, to physical violence. Rare but true.
Non-Pole here. Visited Poland in the past 10 years. Beautiful countryside for sure. Cities and roads were clean. Decent food.
During my last visit, wireless phone service was super in the major cities...even better than Canada's.
As a tourist, Poland was a pretty big bang on my money: Equivalent item from the west for 1/3 of the cost while enjoying modern amenities. But I can see non Polish speakers would have difficulties living there in the longer term. During my trips, I insisted on travelling with at least one native Polish speaker.
The locals did stare at us funny when we didn't put ketchup on our pizza, but then we stared back cause why would someone do such a thing.
non pole here, knew a guy who wasn't white or European, not living in biggest cities, loved it there. sure its safer than many places.
Well I love it, and many places and people will give non-white non-straight people no issues.
But hand on heart can I say to someone outside that narrow blueprint it’s definitely fine? Nope.
Haven't been, so I wonder how it compares with rural US, where, at least in some of the places I've been, people are quite intolerant in abstract, but almost universally friendly in person.
I think if people get to know you, they are indeed positively surprised that “despite” being foreign etc you’re actually nice etc. That wouldn’t be my concern so much.
It would rather be the odd skinhead on the bus or in the street. The current government is also quietly accepting such behaviours, as it is their voter base, so the few “bad apples” feel they can act with impunity.
I don’t want to overplay it, it’s not Nazi Germany, but for sure something to consider. Nice place one way or the other.
Is that true even for visiting? I am Indian and have wanted to visit Poland and the region for quite a while. I did find rural Germany quite ok except communication.
You’ll be fine for sure in touristy areas and big city centres.
There are Indian people living and working in Poland, so it can’t be too bad. Right wing media say nothing of racist attacks. Left wing media describe them all the time. There are vocal nationalists, most of whom never go past their grumblings.
I raise it as I’d be somewhat concerned sending a non-white or job-straight friend into rural Poland.
If you look at UK Foreign Office travel advice, the LGBT intolerance warrants a mention, but no other warning: https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/poland/local-laws-a... . I guess attitudes to non-white people could get a similar treatment.
>very unwelcoming, physical violence
>"I think that sounds great!"
>"Oh no why do people think I'm an evil person"
It should be said that you will need to make some effort to learn the local language.
People will know enough English for you to get by, but it will feel very isolating. Learning just a little bit of Polish will make a world of difference, especially if you need to talk with a plumber or doctor (they're very unlikely to know much English).
Visit Poland before making a decision. As an American their social culture can come off as very cold and rude.
I'm an Australian in Krakow & I'd recommend it. Plenty of people understand English, and it's a small enough city that the vibe is fairly relaxed.
Places like this will help with a visa for a more extended stay so you can run your "startup":
https://twojstartup.pl/
That 6% tax is... complicated. Bug fixes are not innovation IIRC - I just end up paying 19%, which isn't that much anyways.
Exactly, its almost impossible to use the R&D tax relief. Also, starting with 2021, we will pay more than 19% in taxes but the gov cant make up their mind on the changes so we dont know the details yet.
regarding that 6% tax for innovation in IT - be warned, our governing idiot party is about to introduce a bunch of new laws, including a de facto increase of that 19% to 28%.
> should not be hard to include games in this category
You better put aside the remaining 13% for 5 years, just in case the inevitable happens.
Is car ownership pretty affordable overall? (Insurance, fees, etc)
Yes, very affordable. Yearly mandatory insurance, without any discounts for crash-free driving (as I doubt they'd honor insurance histories from foreign countries), is perhaps about $300. Mandatory yearly checkups are $30. Cars themselves are a bit pricier than in US - mostly due to VAT being higher than US's sales tax I guess. But, maintenance is way cheaper - there's plenty of cheap and skilled mechanics who will improvise fixes using scavenged second-hard parts (which they themselves will provide). Rebuilding an engine will cost you perhaps under $400 in labor, while I suspect it's in thousands of dollars in US.
Gas is currently $5.5 per gallon. Most people drive cars with low fuel consumption, so they're easy to get on second-hand market. Also, if one is particularly stingy about fuel costs, it's popular to own cars fueled by LPG. LPG is currently $2.5 per gallon.
I can nearly guarantee that there are many people living under $1k/mo within 10 miles of wherever you are. That’s the low-chaos option if you really want to focus.
Such a question is common from people who are running away from an unhealthy situation unrelated to geography. If so, maybe cut that off prior to and independently of the move, and then probably move anyway.
>Such a question is common from people who are running away from an unhealthy situation unrelated to geography. If so, maybe cut that off prior to and independently of the move, and then probably move anyway.
I have a ton of money saved up and I've never gotten a chance to live in another country.
So why not. Worst come to worse I can always come back and proceed to work another 30 years.
10 miles outside of Austin? Not bloody likely. I mean, if you wanted 5 roommates, sure. But food and transportation (car or not) would be brutal. And say hello to feeling sick from eating the cheapest possible food (goodbye fresh veggies). Or did you mean the people living under tarps by the freeway? I'm sure they live off <1k.
There would be a huge bridge trying to live on $1k/month in the US, assuming you were ratcheting down from some larger income. You wouldn't qualify for subsidized health insurance, for example, until that $1k/month was in place for a year.
It depends where you are. You're almost certainly going to have car costs if you're not in
some city--and for many cities you're going to have to put up with miserable bus service. I'm pretty sure you're not going to draw a 10 mile radius from SF, Manhattan, or Boston and get to $1K/month or it's going to be
really miserable.
Your statement's probably literally true but I assume it's mostly people living with family or other community.
Have you actually lived in the US so that you personally know of this 180 degrees of difference? If so, which parts of the US? I ask because the differences between New York City, Tallahassee, Chicago, Columbus, Nashville, Kansas City, Austin, Taos, San Francisco, Boise, Hattiesburg, Denver, Portland, Bar Harbor, etc. are so wildly stark as to be like different countries on many levels (and I say this as someone who has lived in a number of countries from the US to Europe to Asia, and in a number of States as well)
180 degrees from what culture? I’ve been to Belgrade a few times for work and worked with lots of Serbians for a number of years. They are more like the conservatives in the US.
People move to Belgrade because it’s cheap and the food is awesome. I’ve partied at the Splavs and had a great time. Random people were much more friendlier than Germans (the Serbs told me they were robots). There are some resentments by the Serbs against Americans and NATO bombings. It did come up while I was there.
So if you're non caucasian it's a big NO?
Lol. All I can say is that if you’re Muslim or of African decent it’s not gonna be the same as a Caucasian. Many do not believe in political correctness. Not that Europe abides by that like the US does but also not something you’d see in the UK, France, or Germany. Even Indian coworkers had "issues" there.
I have childhood friends who came to the US during the Yugoslav wars in the 90s. When I mentioned them my coworkers they would quickly point out the last name was Muslim and not Serbian. Also they would point out the one or two Albanians that worked with us.
I would disagree. What is important to know is that in this region of the world discrimination (if at all present) is in general not based on the race/color of the skin - and this is in general true for the rest of Europe too.
In Europe, discrimination, when it happens, is usually based on national or religious differences. All wars Europeans ever fought were over national or religious reasons.
In Serbia generally racial discrimination is not present, nor is a topic of any conversation in media or society (certainly not to any extent like in US). There was a war between serbs and bosnian muslims and serbs and kosovo muslims (note national/religious connotation) some 20 years ago, and some people may have 'hard feelings' about it, but in general that's the end of it. Still, being a Muslim in Serbia is IMO a 'better' experience than being one in USA (maybe also because 5% of population of Serbia is Muslim vs ~1% in USA).
Fellow European here, I have to somewhat disagree. While it is true that discrimination is not as heavily based on skin colour as it is in places like the US I believe it plays a bigger role than you make it out to be.
Discrimination based on nationality is a thing, but it is very much something that varies a lot in Europe. To generalise it as one of the top reasons for discrimination isn't quite right in my opinion.
That said, it's the type of discrimination that is the most prevalent, simply because that's what most people deal with.
However, I think that in day to day life skin colour may be more noticeable than other types of discrimination, simply because it is easier to make out.
While in some places discrimination of certain nationalities or religions is certainly common place and as such might seem like it is the predominant form of discrimination, discrimination based on skin colour is also present. Maybe to a lesser degree, but it is present everywhere.
The simple truth is that the "better" experience will be the one Caucasians get.
This is why I used 'in general' so many times in my comment :)
Perhaps we can agree that in Europe, national/religious discrimination is probably an order of magnitude more prevalent than any other form of discrimination. From my experience and in practical terms, I would even put social/economic/education based discrimination before skin color based one.
The USA might not treat Muslims well, but there have not been mass killings (in country - obviously there have been abroad). Anyone who wants to know more should google Srebrenica genocide, was the July 1995 genocide of more than 8,000 Bosniak Muslim men and boys in and around the town of Srebrenica, during the Bosnian War.
Those individuals who during the 1990s were the most ardent supporters of the ultranationalist politics that paved the way for the genocide in Srebrenica—for the ethnic ‘cleansing’ of Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina as well as Kosovo—are in charge today, too. Since the time of the socialist state’s end, there have hardly been any powerful political actors in Serbia who did not in some way advocate some idea of a ‘Greater Serbia’.
There is a clear continuity of nationalist politics that has more or less been going on since the nineteenth century, and the dominant line of political thinking in Serbia throughout history has mostly been nationalism. The essentialization of Muslims as the ultimate ‘Other’ has been one of this nationalism’s main pillars. On the one hand, Serb converts to Islam are in some way worse than ‘born’ Muslims for most Serbian nationalists. There is the popular saying ‘a poturica [convert] is worse than a Turk’, and the derogatory term poturica applies to all South Slavs who have accepted Islam—including Bosniaks and Serbian converts.
I meant culture of living. Things like cities with lots of parks and pedestrian zones, more walking/less dependency on cars, hidden coffee shops between old buildings, ability to live decently on a very small budget, free education and healthcare, generally easier to make friends, specially if you are a foreigner - things like that.
I would not necessarily compare Serbians to conservatives in US (we are both generalizing now). What you may have experienced in general is 'caution' because that region of the world experienced wars every 30 years on average for the last 1000 years (unlike US). So it's not like its resisting change, but the progress was hindered so many times, having to rebuild everything from scratch. And it is hard to be 'liberal' in an environment where in some places you do not have basic infrastructure. Political 'progressive' thinking usually comes after you solved basic needs. That's just my assessment.
I'm sorry, but as a Serb from Serbia, I cannot agree with the first part of your answer. Belgrade is not a pedestrian friendly city by no means, and you are dependent on cars more then in an average European city. I've spent some time in multiple, smaller and bigger, and those are not features I would associate with Belgrade.
Compared to the US it definitely is. Especially if you stay away from New Belgrade, I've always underestimated how much is there to walk between like two or three blocs there.
Other than that it's just an incredibly interesting city to walk through, even if you're inconvenienced as a pedestrian multiple times on that trip. You never know what you'll find behind the corner: a building that looks like it's falling apart, a gaze-inspiring brutalist building from Yugoslav times, or a modern-looking office. The only thing you know for sure is that you won't have to walk long before finding a café.
The reason I made the comparison to conservatives is because my coworker over there did an exchange program in High School and he thought the South had similar viewpoints to Serbians. I do agree with him about both being conservatives.
Yes I would agree that political views are in general more conservative but for historical reasons I described, not because it is someone's choice (plus strong influence of church 'helps').
Rather than looking at entire countries as a whole you should consider the urban vs rural split. Major cities in Eastern Europe or Korea or even third world countries are still going to be a lot more expensive than, say, some random town 200 miles outside of San Francisco or New York. First decide what kind of lifestyle you are looking for.
Depends on what you count as major cities; the second biggest city in any EE country will be much cheaper than the capital. But in Eastern Europe you also get health insurance much cheaper than in the US.
Not true for Romania, where Cluj is more expensive than Bucharest.
Also not true in Germany where Munich is more expensive than Berlin.
Probably not true in most countries.
Is cluj really more expensive? Maybe for the average Romanian, but expat areas in Bucharest are the priciest in the country, last I checked.
I'm half Romanian and have been considering doing what OP is doing for a while. Cluj was probably going to be my choice, in case I wanted to hire any students.
I don't count Germany into Eastern Europe; there are historical reasons why Berlin is cheaper than some western German cities. Certainly what I wrote is true for Czechia (Brno cheaper than Prague), Slovakia (Kosice cheaper than Bratislava), quite sure also for Hungary, probably Serbia, Bulgaria and Ukraine too.
With my girlfriend and daughter I live in Thailand (Thai countryside) and we have a budget of about 50.000 THB per month, or about 1.300 USD. We own our house, so we don't pay rent and we don't have any loans. This budget doesn't include costs for health insurance, which I pay separately.
I think a single guy could live on quite a bit less, but has to pay some rent. For about 250-300 USD per month you can get a decent enough place to live I'd wager (think: condo studio, 35 m2, gym, swimming pool). If you eat Thai food some of the time, food can be quite cheap (a meal without drinks could be had for about 1-2 USD in a typical Thai food stall or at a food court). If you buy foreign food things can get more expensive. Depending on where you live, coffee can also be had for 1-2 USD. Renting a scooter would be advisable for getting around a city, but would cost an additional 100 USD per month.
Thai food is so good I don't know who wouldn't want to eat it all the time.
I have a lemongrass allergy but I get by.
I recommend the Balkans, in particular the less touristic countries. Serbia, Bosnia, Albania, Bulgaria are all very inexpensive, safe, have reliable internet, and an abundance of cafes and co-working spaces. Most also have favorable visa conditions for Americans (e.g. Albania lets Americans stay up to a year on a tourist visa.) In terms of cities, I recommend Belgrade and Sarajevo the most.
Going further east, Tbilisi (Georgia) and Lviv (Ukraine) are also very inexpensive yet safe and filled with interesting culture.
Due to the Turkish lira collapsing, Turkey is also very inexpensive if you have USD. You can rent an apartment in central Istanbul for ±$400 a month.
I lived in Albania for three years - it's
not at the level of the other countries on this list. It's firmly a developing country - water, electricity and other infrastructure are not great in the capital and degrade precipitously in the countryside and second-tier cities.
It's a great place if you're adventurous - if you're looking for stability, it isn't the place for you. Upsides are that Albanians love Americans (as opposed to the Serbs, who often harbor a grudge) and generally speak at least some english. Prices for things like coffee, etc. are low.
Albanians also have not been very good stewards of their environments, either - litter is a constant, nobody gives an "F" about rules and regulations, practically all the endemic animals have disappeared, and waterways, including beaches, are quite polluted. Cities are a hodgepodge of chaotic construction and barely-functioning infrastructure.
I lived roughly here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3170299,19.8070025,3a,60y,24...
If that kind of scene excites you, perhaps Albania is for you.
Eh, it’s the Balkans. I wouldn’t call it a developing country, but sure, many parts of this region are rough around the edges in terms of infrastructure.
I second this, I would add Croatia to the list if you stay out of Zagreb and Split and even seaside tourist towns are doable for $300 out of season (October to June). Also Croatia offers a digital nomad visa which means you don't pay most of the taxes there.
Which levels of security will you find in Croatia - including appropriate behaviour of public officers, such as the police?
Also - how widespread is the understanding of the English language?
In my experience police was extremely professional in every interaction. Hell, I've even witnessed them refusing a bribe (body cameras tend to do that). Healthcare is also cheap. Had multiple tests to determine whether I needed an operation with no health insurance (I was on a vacation there that time) and it cost me below 150€.
As for language, of course, your experience will depend on where you want to live in the country. North-east sees less tourists than the coast, and finding that sweet middle might take some trial and error.
In my experience, even the worst parts of Croatia are safer and have more responsible cops than the sketchy parts of any mid-sized US city. Young people are fluent in English, along with most well-off middle-aged folks who know enough to consume the internet/English movies and television since Croatian isn't a hugely used language in media. Elderly people who don't live in touristic areas may know very little English but it's rarely a problem.
From what I understand it is very safe and fairly low corruption. English is widespread, especially in cities and costal towns with tourism. It is an absolutely gorgeous country, very Italian in character, but minus the chaos and cheaper as well.
Yeah. The quality of life available in many of these major Balkan cities is on-par with anywhere else in Europe for a tiny fraction of the price. You can find lovely flats in the urban center Sofia, Bulgaria for less than $500 pcm, pay basically no local taxes, access the quality of music/museums/restaurants you'd expect in any other capital city, use a solid public transport system, and get healthcare that beats the USA in both quality and cost. Add in a gorgeous countryside, safety orders of magnitude better than major US cities, and decent English skills among the younger generations and it's a very easy place to pass a year or two. Something to consider for retirement too. Trying to convince my parents to give that a go, since they'd be able to live like kings on their modest savings rather than developing ulcers from constant fear of retirement ending healthcare mishaps.
I can also highly recommend Bulgaria (Sofia). With 1000$ you'll have a decent lifestyle there. I did my Erasmus there with less money. The people are extremely helpful and friendly to foreigners. There is also a tech scene with meetups etc, were you can connect with other people. As a side note BG has the most beatiful women in the world...
>Due to the Turkish lira collapsing
That doesn't bold well for stability. Hungry did appear on my list, the rent seems very very low.
Right now I'm trying to see where COVID-19 will be in a few months. If it's still not possible to travel easily, I might need to stay and save for a bit longer.
The lira has been down for quite some time. I wouldn't consider it indicative of future instability.
Hungary is also a good (and affordable) choice. Budapest is probably one of the most interesting cities in Europe, IMO.
Hungary does have the Orban and anti-LGBT situations, so your personal comfort at living in such an environment is something to consider.
It's not as severe as advertised.
Turkey is stable, maybe there could be revolution, but normal traveler will hardly notice. Airport may be closed for couple of days. I was there during coup.
Also turkey is big and diverse, so if borders closes, it is still large country to travel. It hardly puts any limitations on foreigners.
You list Ukraine as safe. How's the current thing with Russia?
Lviv is in the western part of Ukraine, about 1,000km from the fighting in the east. Completely safe.
For comparison, Lviv to Donetsk is a greater distance than Berlin to Paris or London to Milan, and only slightly less than New York to Chicago.
I have heard very nice things about Lviv from friends and family, small but very pretty and extremely cheap.
One thing I'll mention for US citizens. Aetna's Mobile Healthcare Plan seems fairly reasonable. I'm paying around $300 a month total for coverage for my partner and me (most comprehensive coverage, highest deductible). Apparently it's still valid in the US so long as you spend the simple majority of your time outside of the US (i.e. 6 months abroad).
https://www.aetnainternational.com/en/individuals/health-pla...
In the U.S. it’s not enough to have health insurance: You also need to make sure that the healthcare providers you care about accept it.
Furthermore, there’s a wrinkle to watch out for where “renewing” a policy is actually “buying a new policy”. A new diagnosis under the current policy then becomes a disqualifying “pre-existing condition” when trying to get the new policy.
Wow, that is extremely reasonable. I'm looking to FIRE in the next year and live >6 months abroad, and as a single person, any amount of coverage for <$300/month is a godsend and will not eat into my retirement significantly.
Is there something like this for domestic health insurance (ie. no time abroad)?
Is there any risk they would drop you if you or your partner had a major illness or injury?
You can use Nomad List[0] to get an idea of possible options. Eastern Europe, South America, South East Asia are all viable options with vibrant communities with people like you.
[0]https://nomadlist.com/
+1 for nomadlist, a great community has already done all the hard work on this subject.
India!
Set up a base in a Tier II City in North India.
Accomodation around INR 10-15K
1GbPS Broadband: INR- 4000 (+ taxes)- This is now GST so you'd consolidated bill.
Excellent 4G services- INR 300 with 1.5-2 GB of data per month. You can also opt for PostPaid.
Living expenses around 15-20K (including trips for groceries+ Uber/Ola- tide hailing).
24 hours electricity- around INR 708 per unit. If you run AirCon for the whole day, youd not exceed around INRO 10k.
I am assuming you have yourself covered for Netflix etc.
The cities are not exactly bicycle friendly- I ride a cycle to work- but you can negotiate your way around.
Central Portugal: an hours drive to the beach and incredibly low cost of living at small towns. Amazing food and weather, very low crime rate, easy access to well connected international airports (Porto), easy access to regional tech hubs (Lisbon and Porto)
Example: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Viseu
With 850 euros, you don't live well in Portugal.. you survive. Disclosure: I live part-time there and I love it.
In order of increasing cost of living:
Macedonia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania.
Why these countries:
* cheap (this is why Greece is not there)
* Christian i.e. culturally closer to America than say Turkey or Albania or Bosnia)
* 0-wokeness (if you are LGBTQ you will probably find it a bit more difficult, but Tinder/Grindr works so you can definitely find people for sex)
* good internet for near 0 cost
Probably best to pick the capital of each of them, or a large coastal (or mountain) town.
Malaysia is very doable as a single person. Everyone speaks English, lots of good food. Coliving spaces were quite popular before the pandemic, where some entrepreneurs would rent an apartment and work together, but I don't know where you'd meet people like that.
Foreign visas are also quite loose. You could get an entrepreneurship visa (see the MDEC site). There's a rapidly growing games and animation industry too, so you might be able to find people you'd like to work with.
How's safety.
As far as I can tell America is more dangerous than most other places.
It's quite good. Violent crime is low, very unlikely to get kidnapped or stabbed. Robberies and mugging happens but I don't think it's much worse than average.
Healthcare is up to West European standards and is part of the $1000/month. Coronavirus deaths per pop is at #100th rank or so. The current wave is very bad, with daily cases at about 6th globally, but KL area is about 80% adults fully vaccinated now.
Roads are dangerous if you're driving. Corruption is lowish by Asian standards, high by Western standards. It's at a level where you can choose to bribe the nice policeman or report him, but you're unlikely to be arrested on skin color. We don't have many drug lords; organized criminals run government [1] or take on gov contracts.
Would you like statistics instead of anecdotes? A lot don't exist past 2005 or so, and be aware that many official stats abuse statistics [2]. I'm sure you can search the stats yourself, I'm just here to provide a view.
[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/najib-razak-former-malaysian-pr...
[2] https://twitter.com/dghisham/status/1427814223036370954
Yeah especially in a city for 1k a month, although if you pick the right type of rural crime is almost nonexistent.
Detroit - In 2021 30.6% of the city's population lives below the US federal poverty level. For a single person that's $16,000 a year.
Pros - Large spirited startup community
Negatives - High levels of crime. Snow and cold weather in the winter months.
You can live in almost any city in India for less than 1k USD per month.
In Bangalore (Tier-1 City), rent for a 1-bed-hall-kitchen apartment will be around 200 USD. Add 10 USD per month for high speed internet. Another 100 USD per month for a dedicated maid and cook. Add 200 USD for all kind of grocery. That will be around 500 USD per month of living expenses.
You can live in Varkala/Goa (if you love beaches) and Dharmshala/Shimla (if you love mountains) for even less.
If you're happy in a share house, you could live on that in Aus, albeit frugally. Though if you wanted to live outside the cities you could get rent down to $600AUD, and leave you $800AUD to live on, $200 a week for everything else is stacks.
This was me for 10+ years from leaving home through uni to early career. I lived 2km outside of the Brisbane CBD in a really nice neighbourhood on less than 1000AUD a month. It was enough money that I could eat well, afford beer and go out on the town every now an again.
The cost of share housing hasn't gone up by a huge amount either. I am currently renting out the down stairs of my house (its dual living) for $150 a week per room (2 rooms). Each room gets a 2nd study room as well. Again this is in a nice neighbourhood about 2.5km from the CBD.
I live in Slovakia and I have spent €4112.09 in entire 2020 on everything (housing, food, hobbies, ...), I don't have a car so that could raise your spending (although you should not need one, you're be sitting on your ass making a game, mass transit is decent too). I also live in my own 1 room apartment so no rent, but bills are like 120/month (heating, water, maintenance, ...). Health insurance is €80/month. Internet costs €7/month for 80 MBit/s. Cheapest shared local lamp web hosting costs €3/month. Lunch in restaurant €5. Avoid capital and go to second or third largest city. If you are not white you will get stares.
So I like this idea and I’ve spent a little time in other countries doing something similar. The one caveat I’d say is that although it’s cheaper to avoid major cities it can be quite isolating. Depending on the level of english in the country you go to (I assume you are an English only speaker) you might end up not having a meaningful conversation in the flesh for weeks. I spent about 2 months in Portugal doing something similar and even though I sought out English speakers my conversational ability decreased dramatically, it was very strange. By the end I was literally stumbling over words and unable to make small talk with people. I regained it after a couple of weeks, but I was definitely more in my own head than usual.
In a small secondary city you have a much lower chance of meeting ex pats to talk to (depending of course on the country)
> Depending on the level of english in the country you go to (I assume you are an English only speaker) you might end up not having a meaningful conversation in the flesh for weeks.
One should absolutely, 100% make a good faith effort to learn the language of any country you intend to long-term reside in.
It's for your own health. For my two cents, it'll massively improve your standing in the community because you won't seem like some fly-by-night foreigner (common reputation of americans, which is fine when being somewhere as a tourist but not long term) and will allow you to have serious conversations with people or at least give you a reason to try and have conversations with people (who are generally nice about foreigners attempting to pick up the local language).
> you might end up not having a meaningful conversation in the flesh for weeks
So pretty similar to the last 18 months.
I have a 2 BHK apartment available for rent in Bangalore, India for $375. Internet access is great and it's located right next to many US companies that have branches in India like IBM, Oracle etc.
1000 USD = 850 EUR. You could get by in Estonia, though not very lavishly. An average quality rental apartment is ca. 400-600 EUR/month in the capitol Tallinn. So you'd have some money left for food and stuff. There's free public transport. But the average net-wage is around 1200 EUR, so you'd have to sacrifice some things compared even to the average Estonian. But you'd win in having a small IT friendly city to live in.
Lots and lots of places. Plenty of the world is safe, cheap and easy to live in for a few months.
Do you have any specific time zone requirements? That makes a big difference if collaborating with anyone.
The length of time you can stay on a tourist visa has a big impact. It is limited to 90 days in most of the EU where there are open borders. You would need to fully exit the schengen zone countries for 90 days to be eligible for another 90. This is one of the things that makes Croatia and Bulgaria popular, since they are within the EU, but outside schengen. A few countries are starting digital nomad visas, so if you want to stay longer you can look into those.
Not sure what your vibe is, but check out Bansko, Bulgaria as a nice summer and winter destination with a good set of coworking spaces, extremely cheap cost of living and expat/digital nomad community. Lisbon and Chiang Mai are also very popular in the DN community. Really a lot of this would depend on the time of year for me since I like being places when the weather is nice.
And an obligatory mention of health insurance in these covid times. Travel insurance can be quite cheap and the health care systems of other countries can have vastly reduced prices as well, just make sure you have looked into this and made a plan.
Indonesia. And outside Jakarta to save another 40%
Philippines, same logic avoid the capital.
Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Laos, Myanmar (not safe these days perhaps), Peru, Mexico, Chile, Ukraine, Belarus, Croatia, Bulgaria, C.replublic.
All those countries will cost you far less than 1k usd per month, given you avoid the capital city center and other hot spot where rent is double price.
If you want to have a great experience, I would suggest South of Brazil (something like country from Rio Grande do Sul or Santa Catarina), Buenos Aires in Argentina, or my favorite spot Montevideo, Uruguay. In the 3 options, you can live well with 1k USD and have one of the best times of your life, without a super huge cultural shock. Have fun!
I live in Uruguay, it's not an alternative, it is very expensive. Good quality of life, but you don't live well on that budget. You need up to 2k a month (one person) to live well. Brazil and Argentina are very insecure and economically unstable.
South of Brazil is alright, but as someone who lives in Porto Alegre it is not really 'safe'.
By far the best place to live in Brasil is São paulo (state) countryside. Very safe cities, close to urban centers, not expensive at all. Santos is also pretty nice but 1k might fall short.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_municipalities_in_S%C3...
I currently live in Montevideo and it's surprisingly expensive. Complaining about the prices is very very common. That said, it's very nice and safe with great quality of life overall. It does get a bit boring over time.
+1 about South of Brazil. USD 1k with BRL as it is, it's more than enough to get an entire middle-class apartment for yourself and pay for all utilities in any neighborhood. (I'd not recommend largest southeast cities because you could feel "back" in L.A. traffic).
As I've experienced trying to rent a place in SF, in Brazil even largest cities are _waaay_ easier. You'd have to talk directly to an owner (since it would be difficult for you to prove income) but it wouldn't be a problem finding them and renting for less than a year.
Language will not be a problem, there's a startup scene if you feel like talking shop, and plenty of places to see and visit. You'd have all the infrastructure to stay for a long time.
Isn't Argentina currently under a strict lockdown?
I fail to find in the question, the time period when the user is planning to do it. I wasn't assuming he is planning to do it literally right now.
Lots of places in Pakistan and India you can do that on $1000 USD a month. If you don't do really well with hot weather you could pick a traditional hill station location (Murree, Darjeeling, Shimla, etc). They have lots of domestic tourism accommodation, I'm sure it wouldn't be impossible to negotiate month-to-month terms with some of the property owners there.
Why would anyone in their right mind go to Pakistan? Straight up dangerous for women, most places are dangerous for men as well.
Sure they have nice mountains, but you have those in much safer places as well.
When someone recommends Pakistan I feel like they’re saying: “Sure, Hell is a bit hot but it has great view”.
Gilgit-Baltistan and Azad Kashmir seem to be pretty safe
I’ve been to both Pakistan and India and would not recommend Pakistan. You can’t get things you want in Pakistan, it’s dangerous and to be honest besides the food there isn’t anything to do.
How would Pakistan be for a long-term visit for a woman traveler? I've zoomed around some of the mountainous areas on google maps and as I'm interested in the hiking/mountaineering areas and one thing I've noticed is that there are ZERO photos of female travelers on any of the google images from those areas. Basically anywhere outside of Karachi I am not seeing pictures of women.
Between that and this recent thread on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/pakistan/comments/pb5l2k/how_can_yo...
I had been ranking it lower on my travel wish-list.
Frankly would not recommend it for solo travel unless the woman in question is a really tough individual with experience in even more difficult developing-nation environments.
Curious about Pakistan. Are you from there? Which cities besides Murree would you recommend?
I get better/more reliable internet on my phone in India than I do in my condo in Canada some days
Lowest average rent by state in the US is West Virginia at $628. That means some parts of West Virginia must be much cheaper than that. $400 for food and utilities seems easily doable, but probably not healthcare, so you're likely going to have to be uninsured and pray you don't get sick or injured for 6 months. I'm guessing you'd sage on moving and travel expenses by staying in the US, but maybe not enough compared to some truly cheap countries. I had a good friend in college from Kazakhstan and her family had a 20 bedroom mansion there appraised at the equivalent of about $40,000 USD.
I'm in Morgantown, West Virginia. A university city (cities don't get very large in West Virginia, the state only has 1.8 million people; it has seen zero population expansion for 90 years).
Sold my house not long ago, moved to Morgantown, and I'm renting now. My rent for around 900 sq ft is sub $700. Electric + water + Comcast is a combined $100, that covers all of my utilities. I'm under $800 for rent + utilities and under $1,000 for rent + utilities + food.
Crime is low, as is the murder rate; I don't think there has been a murder here in roughly five years. The Internet is great (Comcast goes up to 1.2gbps here for $80/month, but I don't have a use for that). There's a decent bus system that goes to most parts of the city and is cheap to use. The area, and really the state in general, is overwhelmingly green; drive a short distance in any direction and you've escaped civilization. There's skiing an hour away in the Winter, and a few popular lakes within that distance as well. Oddly housing prices are higher than they should be for the income levels of the region, and it has been that way for a long time, so that's a downside (but this is relatively speaking, as you can buy a nice house here for under $400k; for anyone working in tech remote it's not expensive). It is a boring, docile, quiet region, and that's not everyone's cup of tea; the restaurants are lacking, and there's no consequential nightlife; the nearest relevant city, Pittsburgh, is 80 minutes away.
In the US, university cities - which the US has a lot of - are often the hidden gems of combining safe (low crime, low murder rate) + a relatively low cost of living.
Grandview, MO.
There are homes for sale for as low as $80k, so you can not only live cheap but build equity.
It’s a splurge on your budget but Google Fiber is available.
Grandview is the poor side of town and many people live very cheap. The amenities of the KC area are nearby, many of them free. The parks are great.
A keyword that should pull up quite a bit of related information would be: "Digital Nomad" (though I'd think covid is still throwing a wrench into much of that).
The most "stereotypical" answer is Thailand, which offers cheap internet, food, month-to-month accommodations, friendly to visa runners (hopping over the border for a day and coming back into country every X months to reset your visa), quite a bit to do, and is also pretty safe.
justinram11 says>
"The most "stereotypical" answer is Thailand,:<
But it's so bloody hot!
Romania, some major city that's not the capital. The outskirts of Cluj are perfect, maybe Sibiu or Brasov.
Access to all sorts of nature and activities, affordable housing (big apartments, could even find a nice detached house for less than $500), great food from around Europe, great selection of restaurants/fast food, easy access to the rest of Europe and the world, lovely people who will speak English enthusiastically (maybe not that well though) and of course great Internet for very cheap.
$1000/mo without paying local taxes is enough for all of the above.
In the cities, crime is very low if you're worried (the criminals moved west lol), bureaucracy is on par with Germany (OK that means it's shit), corruption is very low. Whole damn country is a hidden jewel of Europe. Just maybe not that affordable to locals heh.
I love your country, your people and your food. I've been several times and considered living there (ultimately, plans changed). By all means, promote it. But not with lies. Corruption is a big problem in Romania:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Romania
I second this, Romania is really lovely. North side of the Carpathians, with proximity to forest.
Take in mind that housing is typically more expensive for foreigners/tourists than for nationals in most countries
Because nationals have a social net of family and friends that tourists don't have. Because nobody knows you, so the landlord is taking a higher risk, and because locals have more information about the place (were to go for eat cheap, business or streets to avoid, etc...).
Being able to blend with the background can be a big advantage even if the place is a little more expensive. Your personal circumstances (food that you don't like, can't eat by religious reasons, etc) must be taken in mind also.
Just FYI you will only be able to stay for 3 months in most places on a tourist visa.
Most places do offer 6 month visas for artists and for things like what you are doing, but you should try and sort out this plan before you arrive at your destination, because once there you may find it harder to turn your tourist visa into something else.
Either that or you will have to travel to multiple places that do not share the same travel restrictions.
I remember the trick was to fly to another place and re-enter just a few days later to get another 3 month visa. Doesn't work anymore?
Depends on the country. It won't work in the Schengen because the visa waiver is 90 days within a 180 day stretch.
Not like anybody is checking this, I'm speaking from e experience. I had several coworkers over the years who used to live for much longer in Schengen countries without registration. In Austria this works moderately well so does it in Hungary, but of course it has some drawbacks too.
Usually in countries where people tend to curb laws to their liking as well as "forget" to pay taxes (this is the case for Hungary) more often than not, this visa situation not a big deal
Enforcement may be discretionary in some regions, but like all arrangements like this, don't stake your life on such.
Depends on the country. Many weren't keeping digital records but most now are.
How long?
I spent 4 months in Vietnam in 2007 in HCMC. Rent was $300/mo for a sweet pad down the street from the Ben Thanh market. Food was $400/mo, and I didn't cook much at all because street food is cheap and delicious.
However, I'm not sure how this would work out long term, like decades. I couldn't commit to living in a country like that full time. The language barrier would be overwhelming, and I did get tired of friends vanishing after just a few weeks. I'm a het-dude, and the local women I dated really wanted families -- there are a lot of highly successful women there who I got on with w/o much of a culture barrier since they had studied in US/Europe; I wasn't there doing the creepy-US-dude-looking-for-boomboom thing. Not sure I could have made a life for myself there and been happy into old age. I can't imagine what long term healthcare would be like into my 80's as an expat in Vietnam.
Lived there for roughly a year. Short term I cant think of anywhere better, the country is within the OPs budget and offers metropolis cities, to tropical beaches. The food is good, and the culture is fascinating - if thats your kind of thing & are prepared to be open minded.
Long term, I share the same sentiments and felt it was time to leave after a hell of a year. On reflection, that year was probably on of the best of my 30+ years on this planet.
I sometimes think of doing it all again, going into an unknown culture and winging it. You learn a lot about yourself that way. Good luck to OP whichever country he chooses!
Chiang Mai, dirt cheap (as little as $100/month rent, wood floors, mountain view). Poor air quality, great local food.
Da Nang, Vietnam. Bit more expensive, $200/month rent on the low end. Friendly people, surprisingly even to Americans. Great air quality, decent enough waves in winter if you surf. Terrible local food, but certain areas cater to foreigners and there the food is excellent ($5 to $15).
Internet is solid in both locations.
Not quite $1k per month, but in the cheap areas of the UK you can rent for $620/mo, call bills another $230. After adding food, you won't be far over $1000. Just in case you wanted an English speaking country and could stretch the budget.
You'd be really pushed to live on $150/m food. That's £110. Even if you went veggie, super healthy, cooked yourself I think you'd struggle. And zero going out or booze...
You can do it even cheaper than that: there’s a one-bedroom studio flat on Rightmove right now for $380pcm in Newtown, mid-Wales, for example. Newtown itself is ok but the surrounding countryside is gorgeous.
Not the cheapest. Rent would be more like $900.
You could live in rural Finland on $1k USD, although frugally.
The upsides: lots of peace and quiet, excellent infrastructure, almost no crime, progressive Scandinavian values, almost everybody speaks English.
The downsides: long dark winter, sparsely populated, quiet people don't actively seek interaction with newcomers.
Probably not ideal unless you're serious about just huddling down to work.
You can live in some areas in Spain for under $1k/month (outside the main cities of Madrid and Barcelona). I lived some years in Andalusia and my budget was usually around 600eur/month. Not a luxurious life, but Spain has really good services/transportation/infra (including internet) and the weather is difficult to beat.
Paraguay. Cost of living $300/mo in Asuncion. You can get permanent visa allowing you full rights to live and work for life by depositing 5k in local bank.
Also, the best coffee I have ever had in my life.
I would suggest Vietnam but I don't know anybody there with gigabit internet. If you consider best case 100mbps good then here's my pitch
Move to a big city in Vietnam. Pay less than $400 for a 1 bedroom serviced apartment (they clean it ~3 times per week, usually they do your laundry). You can get vegan food pretty easily, it's hot in the summer but you can just stay indoors with AC or go to businesses with AC. Tons of mall and theathers. Movie tickets are $2-$4, double that for soda + popcorn. A cheap meal will be $2, even less if you have a light lunch (think bánh mì) for $1. I'd usually spent $5 per meal or more just to eat foreign food after getting homesick. You can live in a trendier part of town by paying slightly more and be within walking distance of trendy western cafes/restaurants. You can take a motorbike taxi (pretty comfy outside of rush hour) for $5 all the way across town (20km) and a lot less if it's a shorter distance. During rush hour I like to take a car and that'll be $10 for a 9km trip usually.
Plane tickets to other cities will be $40 one-way for vacation/travel purposes. Cheaper hotels $20/night and visiting beautiful beaches is very accessible. Travel to nearby countries (Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, China) for around $200 in airfare. It's a great staging ground for the area.
You seem American, so you can get a 1 year tourist visa (just need to get out of the country every 3 months, use it to visit another country for a few days) without any additional documents (no financial documents, etc).
Ukraine fits the bill, you can rent a nice apartment in downtown part of town, internet is cheap and fast, food costs something like 3 times less then US, cities are walkable, you don't really need a car. Lviv or Ivano-Frankivsk for a more cozy atmosphere or Kyiv if you really want to live in a big city.
Climate is on the other hand, winters could be cold and summers unpleasantly hot so in that regard Balkans could be better.
1000USD is quite a big amount in India. You can live like a king with 150-200mbps, eat out frequently, go to pubs on weekends. Location Bangalore. The weather is mostly pleasant throughout the year.
As others have said you could do this in many places - including countries that are generally more expensive like Germany (350-450€ for a small flat in Leipzig). In practice the main challenge might be finding a short-term rental for as low as people staying a year or more, so factor that in to your search.
I just came back from 2 months in Colombia with my wife and a 3 year old. You can definitely live off 1k USD in an intermediate city (not Bogota) with a very high living standards compared to the average colombian.
Medellin would be my recommendation, very safe, unbeatable weather, access to high speed internet, a trendy startup culture and decent level of English-speaking people, non-stop daily flights to major US cities and same time zone as the US.
I don't know about _very_ safe but it certainly isn't how it used to be. Let's be real, you're in Latin America. It is safer than most Americans would think? Yes, but saying very safe is a bit of a stretch.
Source: I lived in Medellin and spent years living in Latin America.
Pichilemu, Valparaíso (Viña del Mar) or Santiago of Chile are actually pretty good, safe and cheap, and there's a Google node just a couple of streets of the port in Valpo.
Chile is also 8th in the world in Fixed Broadband.
source: https://www.speedtest.net/global-index
Can confirm as a Chilean. Santiago gets more expensive as you approach the main part of the city (Which offers more amenities), but overall, living with 1k USD is very doable (specially with the actual conversion rate).
Living in other regions will be MUCH cheaper, but they tend to be more simple (outside the tourists hubs).
Vilnius can be done for $1k/mo. Rents would be $300-600, food is like $100, health insurance for non-schengen is another $200/mo. Nightlife is fun too, not expensive. Vilnius is not exactly progressive but largely chill on issues of race and alternate sexuality.
Warning in Hungary though, with Orban's government if you are not perfectly white, straight and Christian you might want to avoid it.
In Latin America you can try Chile, we are doing OK with the pandemic compared to other countries, we are in opening phase now, housing can be not that cheap but you may try sharing an apartment/room/house.
The south can be pretty nice and chill compared to the capital (see Canada vs US), but you have less services the more you are in rural areas. Dunno how the prices are there, though. Capital's downtown can be very calm compared to the hell of Santiago's (too much peasants on the road!), but in Santiago you have museums and All-the-nice-stuff(tm) like architecture and European-like roads, metro to everywhere,etc. It can feel like living in another country sometimes, but some things costs more.
Same with Valparaíso or Viña, doesnt look that good but at least you have beaches and a lot of services.
Beware our spanish dialect, we use lots of loanwords and nonstandard stuff sometimes...
You can comfortably live in Latvia on that budget, internet infrastructure is very good & cheap. I got by for years only speaking English.
You can do it pretty much anywere. But yeah, Eastern Europe or SE Asia would be easier then Western Europe.
If you wan't similar culture, go for Eastern Europe capital cities. In Belgrade where I am from you can get 10gbps internet at home where there is fiber, if no fiber then 200-300mbps cable.
In Thailand and Bali I also experienced very good 4g internet and good fiber optic cable net.
I suggest Colombia, you can find greatest rentals for less than 300 USD, and cheap cost of life and amazing food as well. Thinking in cities like Bucaramanga, Santa Marta, etc.
How's the crime and safety situation in Colombia recently? Many years back a good friend of mine lived there for a significant amount of time and it seemed quite unsafe.
A lot, lot better than it used be. I went there in 2017 (or maybe it was 2018) and there were lots of places that Colombians from other parts of the country (or even other parts of the same city) were scared of, but we perfectly safe when you went there yourself. There are places you shouldn't go, but the safe places are pretty safe.
I would say it's fairly reasonable. It's not like a war territory or anything like that. You find big areas that are pretty normal in terms of what to expect, only small crime, and to feel safe it's a matter of being self aware and reduce the attack surface. As it's in many other countries around the world, is more a question of being privy of where the shady neighborhoods or what are the avoidable zones around town. I am colombian and I live in Bogota, so I can answer more questions if you want.
I love the Colombian caribbean coast, so that is why is my first recommendation to the OP, the weather is perfect almost all year round, and with a modest budget he can definitively have a moderate (and even higher) lifestyle with no much compromises.
Medellin is reasonably safe if you stay out of certain areas, and has "eternal spring" (close to equator, but high elevation). The homicide rate of Colombia is 5x USA, which in turn is 5x Germany, which in turn is 5x Singapore.
How is Santa Marta? Debating on that, visited Cartagena and was not impressed, Also $300/week seems to be the norm for an eh place.
Cheaper than USA for sure, but also not a fan of the food in Colombia either. Or most of South America when compared to Asia. :D
++ for Colombia. Healthcare is good for non-citizens, too. Depending on the city, it is high quality, IMO.
Colombia is a beautiful country, but I can't agree that the food is amazing. On par with British cuisine.
Southern Italy. You can live in a small but beautiful village in the south (e.g Sicily) or any seaside village during autumn/winter.
If you like mountains you have to go north (Dolomites) but it’s harder to find a small village for 1k/month in winter.
Obviously living in big city like Milan or Rome costs around 1500-2000€/month for living.
Honest question: if you’re a long-term visitor, do you get affected by the organised crime at all? My general impression is that tourists are fine, but business owners are in the receiving end of the nastiness.
Digital nomads feel like something in between.
Organized crime have international business operation bigger than us. They don’t care about you. It’s just a movie stereotype.
If you go to Sicily you should more worry about you how much good food you will eat rather than organized crime :)
I loved loved LOVED Sicily as a tourist. One of the few things holding me back from moving there would be the above concern.
As Italian, I can say that there is not any risk about organised crime for a "normal" person, unless you are not going to open a shop.
I would feel safer in Sicily than in some zones of Milan.
You are probably not going to open a shop - so, I guess you will be basically "invisible" anyway.
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