I'm gonna wait till DDR5 kits and motherboards are on the shelves with full compatibility to whatever generation intel Core i9 is available and then upgrade to a new desktop.

I'm sure I'll see significant speed nd stability improvements - although I'm doing fine right now.

In theory DDR4 spec started at 1600, but in reality nobody used anything less than 2133 even from the early days of the standard. Within a year of Intel's first consumer DDR4 chipset platforms (Z170) 3000-3200 was pretty much the sweet spot of price/performance and everywhere.

I expect the same here. You're probably looking at 6400 as the bottom end widely sold DDR5 kits in a years time and it'll go quickly up from there.

Go sell your expensive DDR5 crap to first adopters.

Geralt said

Go sell your expensive DDR5 crap to first adopters.

Click to expand...

Who hurt you?

Yuck, you used the ‚U‘ word….

This may be a dumb question, but how is DDR5-4800 performing identically to DDR4-3200 a good thing / sign for DDR5 ?

Its in the article. 80 vs 130 response time. Thats quite huge for the entry level ddr5 kit.

Irata said

Yuck, you used the ‚U‘ word….

This may be a dumb question, but how is DDR5-4800 performing identically to DDR4-3200 a good thing / sign for DDR5 ?

Click to expand...

You won't be buying DDR5-4800, unless you're mental that is, because this is just the early version of it. DDR5 should, like DDR4 before it, become much faster over time. So this right now is nothing to worry about but it points that it should outperform DDR4 in the near future as it matures.

QuantumPhysics said

I'm gonna wait till DDR5 kits and motherboards are on the shelves with full compatibility to whatever generation intel Core i9 is available and then upgrade to a new desktop.

I'm sure I'll see significant speed nd stability improvements - although I'm doing fine right now.

Click to expand...

Unless Zen 4 comes in and wipes the floor with alder/raptor lake, tbh I think that is going to happend. Just like Zen 3 did with both 10th and 11th gen intel cpu's

Every new generation of DDRx has higher CL latency than later models. So, they usually are pretty poor in comparison. CL15 DDR4-3200 will blow away a CL40 DDR5-4800, regardless of what data they show. By the third generation when CL will be 20-25, the DDR5 will scream. Until then, I'm avoiding it.

seeprime said

Every new generation of DDRx has higher CL latency than later models. So, they usually are pretty poor in comparison. CL15 DDR4-3200 will blow away a CL40 DDR5-4800, regardless of what data they show. By the third generation when CL will be 20-25, the DDR5 will scream. Until then, I'm avoiding it.

Click to expand...

This guy gets it! There's pretty much no chance DDR5 with high latency will compare to Samsung Bdie 3800 at cas 14 with tight trfc. Still, if the new Intel chips can get me to 280 fps in Warzone I'm buying. I'm cpu limited at 1080p

I suspected this would happen - too much hype over nothing, high prices + mediocre performance. I needed a new computer recently, and assembled one 1 month ago, with 64GB of DDR4-4000, which is very stable at 4Ghz, and should beat all such entry-level DDR5 modules easily. It probably will be a year at least before a worthy replacement can be seen.

The results that I'm getting on www.userbenchmark.com are:

SC Read 30.7
SC Write 27.5
SC Mixed 44.4

MC Read 62.6
MC Write 48.7
MC Mixed 47.9

Full results - https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/45448533

VitalyT said

I suspected this would happen - too much hype over nothing, high prices + mediocre performance. I needed a new computer recently, and assembled one 1 month ago, with 64GB of DDR4-4000, which is very stable at 4Ghz, and should beat all such entry-level DDR5 modules easily. It probably will be a year at least before a worthy replacement can be seen.

Click to expand...

Exactly. I'm waiting for ddr5 to mature before investing in a new machine. I'm hoping I'll be able to find a good deal on a threadripper pro with 8 channel ddr4 memory support because I want the 128 pcie4 lanes primary for raiding a large number of cheap hard drives for cold data storage. I'm thinking in a year to two years when ddr5 is common ddr4 should be significantly cheaper. I plan to keep the machine for at least 10 years so I want a lot of expansion capability and plenty of networking IO for creating vms the kids can use on cheap thin clients for school work.

Also I'm trying to find any excuse to justify building an awesome workstation I can tinker with and it will be a great way to teach the kids how to work on computers.

seeprime said

Every new generation of DDRx has higher CL latency than later models. So, they usually are pretty poor in comparison. CL15 DDR4-3200 will blow away a CL40 DDR5-4800, regardless of what data they show. By the third generation when CL will be 20-25, the DDR5 will scream. Until then, I'm avoiding it.

Click to expand...

This is what I don't understand.

"DDR5 did best in the latency test. At a 128 MB data width, the DDR4 required 136 ns to be accessed and the DDR5 required 87 ns. A surprising outcome, compared to past leaks."

If, according to the latency test, the DDR5 RAM is faster to access, why doesn't that translate to faster R/W speeds than the DDR4 RAM? I would have thought there'd be a direct correlation.

It's about what I would expect between high end DDR4 and entry level DDR5. I'll probably hold off on any upgrades until the 2nd to 3rd year chipsets for the platform. My these years went fast

Vulcanproject said

In theory DDR4 spec started at 1600, but in reality nobody used anything less than 2133 even from the early days of the standard.

Click to expand...

That's because Sandy Bridge CPU's IGP (HD-530), had a boot up limit of 2133 Mhz.

I'm sort of a wimp, and never run memory past the maximum boot speed of the onboard IGP. (You know, in case a video card blows up, you don't have to R & R the memory, just hook the monitor to the board. (I fibbed a bit. I'm wimpy, lazy, and cheap).

Oops Mods, Sorry about that mess. The post button wasn't giving me any acknowledgement of response, along with a massive time delay.

captaincranky said

Oops Mods, Sorry about that mess. The post button wasn't giving me any acknowledgement of response, along with a massive time delay.

Click to expand...

I've also noticed some odd forum delays too.

captaincranky said

Oops Mods, Sorry about that mess. The post button wasn't giving me any acknowledgement of response, along with a massive time delay.

Click to expand...

You'd think website admins would provide users the ability to delete their own posts. It's not only this website that lacks the functionality.

Edit: Oh, that's interesting. Although the message editor stays open after clicking "Post Reply", the message gets posted anyway.

I've doubled since DDR.
So on the surface, no one should be thinking DDR5 won't be the same.

Except there are other factors with DDR5 specifically, and these tests are not only not controlled, they not being performed on final hardware.

So as of now everyone should be aiming for 6400MHz minimum, but things may change for the better.

RAM just may stop being boring.

Axle Grease said

You'd think website admins would provide users the ability to delete their own posts. It's not only this website that lacks the functionality.

Click to expand...

In this case it's for the best. Otherwise, I'd be falling on my sword thinking my browser was at fault.

That said, if I post something, it's something I meant to say, let the chips fall where they may.

mailpup said

I've also noticed some odd forum delays too.

Click to expand...

I've gotten some truly bizarre errors. For example, I tried to navigate to the "AMD voltage thread", and got a "that page is not available". The error. It was classified as #500.

I was able to access the page with Firefox, further contributing to my paranoia that Opera was at fault.

I ran CCleaner, then opened Opera again, and got the 500 error when I tried to log in. I tried again and got, "you're already logged in"

captaincranky said

I've gotten some truly bizarre errors. For example, I tried to navigate to the "AMD voltage thread", and got a "that page is not available". The error. It was classified as #500.

I was able to access the page with Firefox, further contributing to my paranoia that Opera was at fault.

I ran CCleaner, then opened Opera again, and got the 500 error when I tried to log in. I tried again and got, "you're already logged in"

Click to expand...

It's not your end. My Brave browser also displays the same error for the same thread.

Edit: Yet the thread displays fine in MS Edge...

It displays when I'm logged out.

@Axle Grease

Thanks for the heads up on that.

I actually have to reload the page to see the post in place.

Axle Grease said

This is what I don't understand.

"DDR5 did best in the latency test. At a 128 MB data width, the DDR4 required 136 ns to be accessed and the DDR5 required 87 ns. A surprising outcome, compared to past leaks."

If, according to the latency test, the DDR5 RAM is faster to access, why doesn't that translate to faster R/W speeds than the DDR4 RAM? I would have thought there'd be a direct correlation.

Click to expand...

Onboard ECC

Hahahahah, technology advancements ftw! Even my sorry *** 2400 mhz DDR3 system hits 34.1 MB/s read / 37.6 MB/s write (Gskill Tridentz/4790k stock).

Here's to early adopters! Prices wouldn't be as high if it weren't for you! [image link]

jonelsorelz said

Here's to early adopters! Prices wouldn't be as high if it weren't for you! ))

Click to expand...

Indeed. If you absolutely, positively have to be the first kid on your block to have something, it's only fair that you should help defray the R & D costs.

Put into context and more bluntly, "bragging rights cost money, how badly do you need to hear yourself talk". :

I's never worth buying the early kits of new RAM. Around a year or two is when they become fast enough and cheap enough.

Vulcanproject said

In theory DDR4 spec started at 1600, but in reality nobody used anything less than 2133 even from the early days of the standard. Within a year of Intel's first consumer DDR4 chipset platforms (Z170) 3000-3200 was pretty much the sweet spot of price/performance and everywhere.

I expect the same here. You're probably looking at 6400 as the bottom end widely sold DDR5 kits in a years time and it'll go quickly up from there.

Click to expand...

Good point, but it's worth noting that DDR3 reached 1600 in the standard, and that before DDR4 was introduced DDR3 2133 was common (kind of like DDR4 3200 today, I'd say; correct me if you think the analogy is wrong), DDR3 2400 was like current DDR4-3600, and DDR3 3000 was available.

That made DDR4-1600 quite pointless. It's far from the situation with DDR5, where the baseline 4800 is near the top of the line for DDR4. I agree with you that we're likely to standardise on higher speeds even in the short run, but DDR5 4800 in nowhere nearly as pointless as DDR4 1600 was.

In any case, I wouldn't read much into the current numbers. DDR5 4800 should have a real bandwidth advantage over DDR4 3200. The DDR5 CPU's slower speed in this sample probably has an effect, and the platform is far from mature. I'm pretty confident that by release date we will see a meaningful difference, and probably even more so with the CPU generation after that.

So, today I have learned that I can save $300 by not buying any DDR5 and just stick with my current 32GB of DDR4 3200 in my 9900K PC, If I decide to upgrade to an Alder Lake 12900K build in Q1 2022, seeing as its compatible with DDR4.

Good!

captaincranky said

Indeed. If you absolutely, positively have to be the first kid on your block to have something, it's only fair that you should help defray the R & D costs.

Put into context and more bluntly, "bragging rights cost money, how badly do you need to hear yourself talk". [image link] :

Click to expand...

says the one with 17,025 posts. lol. not that I want to ignore the "cranky" part of your name, but do you actually have an opinion in tone with your age, other than name calling or projecting?

bragging rights cost money? thank god people with low self worth can always buy new stuff to feel better about themselves. if you remember your economics 101, price is dictated by demand/supply, not by r&d. you can ASK whatever price you want for a product. some *****s bought a 999$ iPhone app that simply added the icon of a diamond/gem on their screen. at the other end, VW loses about a million dollars on every Veyron they sell. but who am I to reply to strangers without 2 simultaneuosly firing synapses. [image link]

QuantumPhysics said

I'm gonna wait till DDR5 kits and motherboards are on the shelves with full compatibility to whatever generation intel Core i9 is available and then upgrade to a new desktop.

I'm sure I'll see significant speed nd stability improvements - although I'm doing fine right now.

Click to expand...

Honestly if I were I would skip 12th gen and wait till for the beta testers to try it out first

Pastuch said

This guy gets it! There's pretty much no chance DDR5 with high latency will compare to Samsung Bdie 3800 at cas 14 with tight trfc. Still, if the new Intel chips can get me to 280 fps in Warzone I'm buying. I'm cpu limited at 1080p

Click to expand...

You really need that 280fps? Are you that bad in the game? What's next 360fps at 720? LMAO

captaincranky said

That's because Sandy Bridge CPU's IGP (HD-530), had a boot up limit of 2133 Mhz.

I'm sort of a wimp, and never run memory past the maximum boot speed of the onboard IGP. (You know, in case a video card blows up, you don't have to R & R the memory, just hook the monitor to the board. (I fibbed a bit. I'm wimpy, lazy, and cheap).

Click to expand...

You know you could run faster memory and then just the speed on it?

jonelsorelz said

says the one with 17,025 posts. lol. not that I want to ignore the "cranky" part of your name, but do you actually have an opinion in tone with your age, other than name calling or projecting?

Click to expand...

Have you checked my join date? I've been "projecting" for nigh on 15 years.

Besides, I just gave my general opinion, whereas you're commenting directly on my character, my ability to think, me "living up to my screen name", etc. Which while not directly , "name calling":, so to speak, is an "ad hominem" attack. (and BTW, off topic Not that I'm a stickler for that sort of thing),

jonelsorelz said

bragging rights cost money?

Click to expand...

As a matter of fact it does. Why else would someone pay $2,000,000 for some crap antiquated "Super Mario" game cartridge? I also believe he felt it might get him laid more, since the average high maintenance barracuda has to know, there;s plenty more money where that came from. If nothing else, said gold digger might be able to squeeze a few hundred thou out of him in a :sexual harassment lawsuit

jonelsorelz said

if you remember your economics 101, price is dictated by demand/supply, not by r&d. you can ASK whatever price you want for a product. some *****s bought a 999$ iPhone app that simply added the icon of a diamond/gem on their screen.

Click to expand...

I don't recall "economics 101", since I never signed up for that course..

I am however up to about "paying attention to the news", oh say about 6201. And IIRC, big pharma always blames the staggering cost of a newly released, patented drug, on, "massive R & D costs", and gets away with that explanation, every time..While "Viagara", was still under patent protection, the sticker price was $2,000 a month. The massage there being, "woodies cost money, how many do you feel you need"?

jonelsorelz said

VW loses about a million dollars on every Veyron they sell. but who am I to reply to strangers without 2 simultaneuosly firing synapses.

Click to expand...

Well, major automakers spend gobs and gobs of money on their racing divisions. But they do it under their own brand name. So, if Chevy is winning a bunch of races, they'll likely sell thousands upon thousands of their standard autos, to compensate for, and likely exceed, their investment. at the track. Have you ever heard of, :NASCAR"?, or were you too busy studying economics?

If Volkswagen loses a million on every Veyron the sell, they should re-brand it as a Volkswagen instead of Bugatti, and take it to the track. It might help them sell a lot more plain old Volkswagens..

While I'm here, (I'm about to go rest my two lone brain cells), do you mind if I ask, how your > 3rd post< went for you? Did it make you feel important, maybe like you'd accomplished something? Or possibly like you've righted some "wrong" for Techspot?

Adi6293 said

You really need that 280fps? Are you that bad in the game? What's next 360fps at 720? LMAO

Click to expand...

Honestly, I'm 40 years old and I'm competing with super sweat 20 year Olds in Warzone. We play wagers occasionally so yes I need the 280fps on my 280hz monitor. My human benchmark scores are around 180ms which isn't great. My aim is pretty good though thanks to hundreds of hours in Kovaaks. The lower input lag of high refresh rate gaming really helps me compete with the kids. Also, pretty much all CS pros play at lower than 1080p stretched (4:3) aspect ratio, not far off 720p. If I used a controller I'd probably do better at Warzone but I'm MKB for life. Thanks for your toxicity though!

Adi6293 said

You know you could run faster memory and then just the speed on it?

Click to expand...

I thought I explained why I ran the stock speed RAM.

Or were you trying to say, "you know you can run memory faster than the speed on it". Big difference

captaincranky said

Well, major automakers spend gobs and gobs of money on their racing divisions. But they do it under their own brand name. So, if Chevy is winning a bunch of races, they'll likely sell thousands upon thousands of their standard autos, to compensate for, and likely exceed, their investment. at the track. Have you ever heard of, :NASCAR"?, or were you too busy studying economics?

Click to expand...

Whilst I totally agree with your point, I think using Nascar as your example wasn't a good choice.
Pretty much no one outside North America watches it or knows the manufacturers or drivers.

Colonel Blimp said

Whilst I totally agree with your point, I think using Nascar as your example wasn't a good choice.
Pretty much no one outside North America watches it or knows the manufacturers or drivers.

Click to expand...

No one outside of the southern US watches Nascar... f1 is way more popular in Canada

Pastuch said

No one outside of the southern US watches Nascar... f1 is way more popular in Canada

Click to expand...

There are other racing circuits here in the US, and I believe Formula 1 as well. If not F-1, then "Indy car", racing. I'm old enough to remember when they were running those nasty old "Offenhauser" four bangers. (I even spelled that correctly, first try).

I do recall watching a "strange" racing event here in the US (?), which was held on an F-1 style track, but the cars were of many different classes from stock to full on F-1 designs. I've never had any interest in oval track racing, whatsoever.

I'm from "the union" part of the country, and can assure you I have absolutely no interest in watching stock cars go round and round in circles at 200 MPH. Usually, the "highlights" of the horrific crashes on the 11 o'clock news are more than sufficient to satisfy the sadistic side of my nature.

NASCAR is our most "notorious" (?), racing organization, which is why I used it as a citation.. Although, it's just not the same now that they're not allowed to wave the Confederate flag around anymore.

My interest in watching sports only goes as far as women's beach volleyball, women's figure skating, and women's artistic gymnastics. The shoulders on the women, (girls ?) in in standard gymnastics are a bit off putting. IMO, it's not "ladylike", to be built like John Cena..

OK. so I'm a lecherous old fart, what of it?

Pastuch said

Honestly, I'm 40 years old and I'm competing with super sweat 20 year Olds in Warzone. We play wagers occasionally so yes I need the 280fps on my 280hz monitor. My human benchmark scores are around 180ms which isn't great. My aim is pretty good though thanks to hundreds of hours in Kovaaks. The lower input lag of high refresh rate gaming really helps me compete with the kids. Also, pretty much all CS pros play at lower than 1080p stretched (4:3) aspect ratio, not far off 720p. If I used a controller I'd probably do better at Warzone but I'm MKB for life. Thanks for your toxicity though!

Click to expand...

I myself run a 165Hz Monitor but honestly I don't know why I mostly play single player games, few online ones, my brother talked me into it saying it was so good, I barely see or feel a difference as for the input lag we are talking here about milliseconds here that definitely doesn't make a difference

captaincranky said

I thought I explained why I ran the stock speed RAM.

Or were you trying to say, "you know you can run memory faster than the speed on it". Big difference

Click to expand...

My comment wasn't full... what I was trying to say was that you could have run faster memory than 2133Mhz and if your GPU broke down just clock it down

Adi6293 said

My comment wasn't full... what I was trying to say was that you could have run faster memory than 2133Mhz and if your GPU broke down just clock it down

Click to expand...

Gotcha.

Although that does assume you can get IGP output into BIOS with the higher memory speed.

I do have a spare 8400 GS laying around for such emergencies. I suppose that would be a good work-around.

Fortunately we have time before the real next gen future proofing begins with AM5 3 quarters away for ddr5 ram to mature.