A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

The last weeks and days have seen some erratic behaviour by Stack Exchange Inc, such as likely illegal changes to the content license and the firing of a community moderator for no good reason. It would be nice if those just were examples of ill judgement, but the disturbing alternative is that SE has given up on cooperating with the community.

An increasing rate of incomprehensible actions

There's along history of Stack Exchange alienating more engaged community members (and I know many that have already left as a result). That neglectful approach is regrettable, but not outright malicious. This seems to have changed, to the worse.

On Sep 5, SEannounced without prior discussion that the content license was being retroactively changed. Even though that change might be desirable, it was widely questioned as being illegal. It tookthree weeks to getany response from SE, and even that doesn't address any concerns the community raised. (Presumably because acknowledging those concerns might be an admission of wrongdoing?)

On Sep 27, SE fired community moderator Monica Cellio from all sites for … I'm not really sure, since I'm not a mod, but it seems to have been over an unrelated disagreement. Demodding isn't a proportional response to disagreements andgoes against Stack Exchange principles. This is extremely concerning: is disagreement no longer allowed? Does SE now demand unquestioning loyalty from community mods? Really odd, since Monica was otherwise known for being a prolific and reasonable moderator.

As far as I know, the following mods have been fired or have resigned in protest over the firing:

• fired: Monica Cellio on Judaism (and other sites such as The Workplace), provides background
• resigned: Gilles on Computer Science ,French, andEmacs, provides background
• resigned: Snow on The Workplace
• resigned: Jane S on The Workplace
• resigned:Dennis on Code Golf
• resigned: Robert Harvey on Software Engineering and Stack Overflow
• resigned: GlenH7 on Engineering andSoftware Engineering
• leaving (resigned?): Brock Adams aka Awesome Poodles on Stack Apps
• suspended activity: Paul White on Database Administrators
• stopped activity before new election ended: Tensibai on DevOps.SE
• taking a break ColleenV User9161 on ELL

Also related to the incident, but for their own reasons:

• resigned:Aza on Literature, worth reading, predates other events
• resigned: Journeyman Geek on Meta.SE

Company and Community

I understand that Stack Exchange the company is under a lot of stress right now. They are transitioning to a new CEO and somehow need to finally become profitable, which might be the reason for odd statements about ad policies oraggressively pushing the Stack Overflow Teams product everywhere. But stress is no excuse for waging war on the userbase.

Stack Exchange is not only a company but also a community. While the company provides the platform, the community provides the content that makes the platform valuable. Either party can only be successful by cooperating with the other. But at this point, it looks Stack Exchange Inc has given up on communicating with the community and is taking an adversarial stance.

Is Stack Exchange Inc still interested in cooperating with the community? What is the vision for this relationship?

• If SE would like to start engaging with the community again, the incidents above are likely just regrettable mistakes. How will SE prevent this string of mistakes from continuing in the future? What will SE do to mend these issues?

• If SE wants to continue on this path towards an unwielding Corporate Overlord role, the community will likely bleed engaged members at an increasing rate. How will SE ensure continued high quality of the network sites? Just trying to grow faster will only exacerbate those problems.

I for my part expect to stop writing answers or participating otherwise until I see a good-faith effort towards mending the rift.

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Monica is my captain. There is no one else I would rather follow in this community - she is the perfect embodiment of “leading by example”. She has been a leading light and community builder on every community she's led, and more than a few that she hasn't. The value that's she's added to the platform as a whole is incalculable.

Within the confines of the moderator curtains, I witnessed at first hand this whole sorry story play out.Gilles’ meta post carries most of the context.

I didn’t wholly resign due to the underlying issue, it’s more about how SE went about sacking Monica that’s the thing for me. Cold, calculating, and impersonal with no regard to her good standing or experience. I wouldn’t have canned any user with that same lack of empathy.

SE does have a large disconnect between the company and the community that underpins it. I was hoping that things would get better after the previous Twitter/HNQ debacle.

Sadly, SE is no further on in talking with its users. I cannot in good conscience continue serving a community when I don’t feel valued, heard, or supported by the level above me.

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  – Monica Cellio 18 hours ago

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  – Modus Tollens 18 hours ago

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  – Jason Bassford 7 hours ago

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I've been asked a few times about my demodding. The simple, honest answer is simply that... I'm tired. The past few days has been an emotional roller coaster.

As a moderator, I've always felt an essential part of my role was to bring a community together. To help build bridges, and to heal rifts. To let folks know before lines are crossed so we can pull ourselves away from the brink.

Right now, I feel lost and confused. My hammer feels too heavy to pick up. I see folks at each others throats - seeing every shadow as a threat. I wish I was up to what I feel we need. I'm not entirely sure anyone is. I'm sorry I don't even feel up to trying. Maybe some day I'll feel up to what I expect myself to be as a moderator here. For now, I'm not sure where I stand, or the community. I'd say though I'm grateful for the chance to serve, and to serve alongside some of the finest people I've had the privilege of modding with.

This isn't our finest moment. This doesn't feel like anyone's finest moment

I'd like folks to come together and resolve differences. This isn't going to be easy. A lot of the folks involved are fine folks, but proud, and least from what I've seen, the wounds run deep.

I have my reservations of how this has happened. I'll talk to folks as I feel fit. I hope it does some good. I don't feel like everyone will listen. At my lowest, I'm not sure anyone will. But I love this community and all I can do is try.

Lots of people are hurt. I don't dispute this. But I ask that well - sometimes we need to take the high ground. To reach out to those who hurt us, and to realise the hurt we could have caused unknowingly. If someone has hurt you, try to heal. If you can talk to them, make peace, we're much stronger than we are fighting each other.

I know a lot of people are curious about what's happening. A lot of this will likely get discussed over the coming days. I'd urge patience and empathy.

We've seen a lot of folks act as their conscience saw fit. I respect that. Resigning as a moderator feels like the only way to make a stand. Mine would be to plead for empathy

That said, we're all stronger together. Its tempting to assign blame. To fight the folks who we fear wish to do us harm.

Maybe its a cultural thing. I'd rather make a friend, or an ally than a scene. But as everyone can see, I'm just an ordinary person in the periphery of an extraordinarily messy situation.

I'm asking a lot. For folks to examine their biases. To make friends with people they were hurt by. But if it was easy, we'd have done it already.

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  – Yvette Colomb 13 hours ago

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  While I appreciate the sentiment of statements like " To reach out to those who hurt us, and to realise the hurt we could have caused unknowingly, " it's way too easy for talk about healing rifts and the like to become just another form of what Aza said: "I think they hope that the more we share, the better the situation will become. That has never been true. The same voices push back against our presence, every time." Telling such a person to heal themselves and stretch out a bridge building hand seems naive. – Nicol Bolas 10 hours ago

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  – jpmc26 10 hours ago

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  – Journeyman Geek 10 hours ago

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  The irony... Unicorn Meta Zoo #9: How do we handle problem users? There should be a new podcast entitled: How do we handle our handling of trusted users? – Mari-Lou A 5 hours ago

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  – Magisch 5 hours ago

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  –  Shadow The Coffee Wizard 3 hours ago

• 1

  – user619714 15 mins ago

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  I stood down. I believe the exact words I used were "I need to take a break". At no point was I asked to step down by anyone. This is clearly and unequivocally a choice I made voluntarily. – Journeyman Geek 12 mins ago

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I wish I could share some of what's been happening in the moderator chat, but suffice it to say that Stack Exchange has gone beyond the pale in the "1984" abuse of language and thought/speech crime department. Even so, it's not clear that Monica violated the new guidelines (yet) -- but I didn't do a comprehensive search.

The only good thing about this is that it's a company doing this and they don't (yet) have government thought enforcers (at least for the most part in the USA).

As of right now, I'm done with Stack Exchange. I had already cut way back a few years ago in my posting and moderation due to previous outrages.

I know that most of you don't know me or care that I'm leaving. But I urge you to explore the history of this language corruption and tyranny. It may just be some tech company this time, but it won't stop there.

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  Even though the new guideline hasn't been published yet, I have been scrupulous in not violating it. I asked questions about how it was being interpreted so that I could avoid violating it. Those questions have largely gone unanswered and I erred on the side of caution, as I will when something is actually published if I'm still here. – Monica Cellio 16 hours ago

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  @MonicaCellio I got your message, I'll flick you an email later today. I stepped down because I'm tired . My life is busy and tiring and modding was one thing on top. I've left all social media, even cancelled netflix so I spend time on the things I need to. – Yvette Colomb 12 hours ago

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  – Ry- 11 hours ago

• – Ramhound 7 hours ago

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  @Ramhound - Actually, the book is called "Nineteen Eighty Four" (altough the number 1984 is often used in it's stead). "Animal Farm" is a different book. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four – Jeremy Davis 7 hours ago

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  @JeremyDavis - Both great books I suppose. I got tricked by an image of Animal Farm with 1984 written on it. Turns on it's an image for both books :$ I forgot Animal Farm was a relatively short novel. – Ramhound 7 hours ago

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  @Ry- Since only the people “in the know” have any idea what’s actually going on, since both sides steadfastly refuse to give an actual account of what went down (instead of vague references), you’ll have to accept that outsiders will form opinions based on incomplete information. – Konrad Rudolph 56 mins ago

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  – user9161 1 hour ago

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Community contradicts profitability. There is a lot of sense in this question from two years ago:

How much is a Stack Exchange reputation point worth, roughly, to the company?

By far the largest proportion of the brand's value is in the work done by the licence givers. The deal is basically that the licence givers work for the company in return for being allowed, for as long as the company allows them, to use the tools they need to work for the company with - an experience that many licence givers enjoy, because they feel they are doing work which has merit and because they feel a sense of camaraderie with other licence givers (also known as community).

Now several hundred people have invested emotionally here to an enormous degree...except that "invested" is completely the wrong word, because they have worked for the company for free, creating most of its value and receiving no payment or promise of payment or income but an occasional T-shirt with an advertisement on it.

Basically the licence givers, whatever their legal rights may have been, or may still be, to grant licences to parties other than the company, or to use their work commercially in other places, have generally speaking mostly not been interested in that kind of thing, and that's not the reason why they have contributed. What they have been interested in is the use-value of their work: their sense of achievement and also the usefulness of their work to others, its quality. The company, however, has only ever been interested in its exchange-value .

This was bound to happen.

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  – Bhargav Rao 10 hours ago

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