The Elon Musk Don Lemon Interview: Full Video and Text Transcript
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[Music]
welcome to the Don Lemon show everyone
we're still here in a minute I'm going
to bring you my conversation with Elon
Musk the one that everyone is talking
about but first let me tell you a bit
about the show contrary to what you
might have heard we weren't cancelled by
X yes after months of begging me wooing
me to offer some exclusive content on
his platform Elon Musk decided to scrap
the deal but our plan is and always has
has been to release this show everywhere
on YouTube on Spotify on iHeart radio
just about any place you stream content
now for my conversation with Elon as
with all my interviews no restrictions
no ground rules nothing off limits or
out of bounds that is until the
interview ended so what went
wrong I don't know but my hope is that
you learned something about both Elon
and me two people who come from
completely different Vantage points on
almost every single issue and I
challenge you Elon to watch the whole
interview and tell the world why this
isn't what you claim you want on
X thank you for inviting us here you're
welcome Tesla headquarters I it's I'm
surprised how big it is I've never seen
it yeah it's about three times the size
of the Pentagon yeah we built it in 16
months it's the fastest construction
project in the United States since uh
World War II so I'm here you know as you
know I'm on the platform because you are
you say you're a free speech absolutist
right and there no conditions uh
yeah free speech is as as much as
possible within the bounds the law yeah
so the reason I'm saying that is because
there are no conditions on this
interview you said that you know we
speak to you for an hour I don't like
sound bite so I welcome that so let's
get into it so we're here in Austin
South by Southwest is going on we're at
the Tesla headquarters you are in the
process of moving SpaceX here I
understand no uh so uh space has a a
massive uh facility in south Texas where
we build and launch Starship and then we
we have um an bash near Austin we uh are
about to start production at a a
stalling uh a large Starling Factory for
stalling terminals but it's uh but we're
not shutting down any facilities in
California um listen we are here as part
of a launch of a news interview show
that is going to be on x.com uh it's
coming as a media industry as you know
is going through a whole lot of changes
X has also been affected by that where
do you see xcom's role in the future of
news and journalism
Elon well I I think the I see the the X
as uh it's it's already the number one
source of news uh in the world so it is
number one uh the number one way that
people actually are informed about any
kind of news meaning realtime events is
uh on the X platform forly Twitter um
there's there's nothing even close for
realtime news
so um we also want to expand upon that
um and we've we have done so with the
long form content so instead of just
doing what used to call tweets you canot
do long form posts you can post an
entire essay in fact you can now uh put
an entire book post an entire book to
the platform um you can do long form
video content uh so you can do uh up to
4-Hour video segments um we really want
news in whatever form it is or
information I should say in whatever
form it is to be available on our
platform whether it's short long text
pictures video whatever the case may be
yeah and some of the stuff that we do
long Fromm video interview shows what
have you you um you reached out over the
summer and you said it would be great to
have matto Don Lemon others on the left
put on this uh platform you receive full
support the digital Town Square is for
all what do you mean by that well just
mean that uh we want to make sure that
there are a wide variety of viewpoints
that it's uh you know we obviously have
for example tug cson who uh most people
will view as being on the right um and
uh you know that's that's a quite quite
a prominent name on the right we want to
have uh prominent names on the left as
well uh to provide uh different views of
points of view uh as well as Centrist
just basically a wide range of
viewpoints on the platforms so users can
uh hear different opinions uh you they
can hear you know what is what's your
point of view what's s's point of view
and make and you know and people can
make their own decision about what they
what they believe you didn't mean that
I'm on the left did you think that I
thought you were on the left but I don't
know I used well let's just say I don't
know what the left is or the right is
frankly these days because things can be
quite polarized but you seem my
impression was that you're you're you're
be more likely to be described as on the
left than the right
uh I might I might sense as you're sort
of Center left I don't know you tell me
well did you ever watch me on CNN or did
you watch I saw I saw say yeah yeah not
I I've saw segments yeah me CNN is
generally considered left yeah why do
you say
that why do I say CNN is generally
considered
left uh I think if if you look at any
sort of media survey of what is on the
left or right I think they would say
like for example Fox is is on the right
and CNN is on the left
yeah so that's what is it am I missing
something here okay are you missing
something I don't know I I think that
what you when I read that I said like
many uh of my critics or detractors they
never really watched me on CNN they just
saw the clips of me either on social
media or maybe on Fox news or
conservative media where it's sort of a
where I become a character or a
caricature of what I actually am and
it's taken out of context uh sure well
how would you describe yourself yourself
um I would describe myself as someone
who is I I I am independent in my
thinking and I vote for People based on
the issues and how I feel about it not
necessarily because uh of political
leaning of some sort well I agree with
that approach I think that's generally
how yeah how people should uh you know
take things which is I mean there there
are a whole sort of set of issues which
are sort of somewhat arbitrarily
bucketed into right or left um but I
think most I think most citizens
uh would think that they would agree
with some things on the left but not
everything or agree on some things on
the right but not everything um so uh
that's that's what um I think most
people will feel I guess how much longer
maybe maybe the answer is forever how
much longer are we going to have to call
it the formally known as Twitter I mean
even Prince went back to prince instead
of is it always going to be X it's
definitely always going to be X so X is
going through some changes is said a lot
um of media companies are going through
some changes it's it you're in charge of
an incredible platform Elon how do you
feel that's
going I think it's going pretty well so
far um we're seeing record usage um
we've added a tremendous amount of
functionality I mentioned the uh that
you know it used be that you can only do
short you know text and maybe a a
picture or something like that short
video um but now you can do long form
text long form video uh We've added
audio video calling uh so you can not
not just just do text DMS you do order
video calling um we've improved the
algorithm I think significantly um and
um made the system faster and better and
best reflected in the increased usage so
let's talk about that because you said
you wanted all points of view right it's
it's a digital Town Square for all yeah
it's the the the platform has kind of
picked up where conservative media some
conservative media has left off um that
moving to the right increasingly
becoming part of a conservative dialogue
and sometimes even conspiracy theories
right there was an article recently
written about you saying that you Donald
Trump and X were the most important um
people uh or places or whatever icons
when it comes to the magga movement do
you agree with that how do you feel
about that uh well I mean there are
nonsense articles written all the time
and I certainly wouldn't agree with that
one I put in the nonsense category so uh
the the the objective fact of the matter
in my opinion was that um uh old Twitter
was fundamentally a of the the farle As
and that was really I think a lot of it
was due to being located in San
Francisco Bley um and so uh it wanted to
essentially project the SF Bley uh
political Dogma worldwide you think it
was far left yes I do I I used to get I
actually got off the platform because I
would get so much hate tweets when it it
was called in so much hate tweets and
and just Guff from right-wing conspiracy
theorists being called everything from
you know [ __ ] to sure it's the internet
you know people will do I I've been
called every name times a thousand yeah
do you agree that it's right now and
that even it's moved into sort of magal
land conspiracy theory I don't I
certainly don't think it's right um the
the old school Twitter uh suspended and
suppressed uh accounts that you'd call
on the right 10 times more they did An
accounts on the left and even when they
did suspend an account on the left uh it
was because of arguments between two
people on the left
uh the political donations of old
Twitter were 99% Democrat does that
sound left red leftwing or rightwing to
you the Twitter donations yes you know
when they look at donations by from a
company if a company donates n literally
99% of all donations are to Democrats
does that strike you as a left leaning
or a right leaning you mean the company
donated I understand what you're saying
what I'm trying to tell you is that uh
Twitter employees people at Twitter
their political donations were 99%
literally
99% uh to Democrats that's obviously an
extremely left-leaning group my question
to leading into this is about magga you
and speaking of magga you recently met
with Donald Trump in Florida what did
you guys talk about uh I was at a dinner
I not dinner I was at a breakfast at a
friend's place and Donald Trump came by
that's
it so you didn't go there to meet him I
no I went to a a a friend of mine's
house
uh and said Donald Trump's coming by for
breakfast is that uh just so you know
like okay fine what did you discuss i'
I um let's just say uh he did most of
the talking
what the normal things he says there was
nothing particularly groundbreaking on
you but uh he you know
uh president Trump likes to talk
and so he
talked I I don't call him saying
anything that he hasn't said publicly uh
and that was it was just a breakfast did
he ask you for money he didn't did he
ask you for a donation no he didn't you
said you're not going to donate to any
candidate that's correct why
not I think
uh while I I'll voice my opinion um I
think uh I don't want to I don't want to
put a thumb on the scale monetarily that
is you know significant are you going to
loan him money to help pay his bills no
not at all pay his legal bills I'm not
I'm not paying paying his legal bills in
any way shape or form and he did not ask
you for money and he did not ask me for
money are you going to so you're not
going to endorse a candidate I may in
the final stretch endorse the candidate
uh but I don't know yet uh I want
to make make a considered decision uh
before the election uh and if I do
decide to endorse a candidate then I
will explain exactly why are you leaning
towards anyone no you're not leaning
towards anyone because you've been I'm
leaning leaning away from Biden you're
leaning I've made no secret of that are
you concerned about losing your security
clar Clarance if Biden is reelected does
that have anything to do with it
no you are leaning away from Biden but
you're not going to endorse anyone it
seems like an endorsement of President
Trump because there are only two people
who are running now Nikki Haley is out I
mean a lot can happen between now and
the election so we'll see who in their
final analysis uh are the choices for
president um and at that point I may or
may not endorse uh one of the candidates
if I do I will provide a very uh detel
explanation of why I endorsing one or
the other at that point might you
contribute or
donate uh I I think it's unlikely so you
have been posting up a storm as you
always do in the past couple weeks about
the redesign of the Tesla uh roster
coming at the end of this year are there
any kind of updates that you can talk
about that to expect from Flagship EV I
mean Tesla's stock is down the last 6
months what's next for the
company you know the stocks go up and
down but what really matters is are we
making and delivering uh uh great
products the Tesla products are um
outstanding uh last year the model Tesla
Model y was the best selling uh car of
any kind in the world so it was about 1
1.2 million units it was the best
selling car despite being I think around
50% more expensive than the next
bestselling vehicle um of any kind not
just electric so um I think that's a
testament to the incredible work of the
Tesla team um and uh we launch the Cyber
truck obviously that's uh being very
well received um we have uh I think over
a million orders for the Cyber truck um
uh it's it's a really special product
that is that I think the Cyber truck is
one of those part that Products that
come comes along really once
in several years maybe once a decade
cyber Tru is a once a decade product it
is so uh special and and I think it's
our best product um so but everyone
improves over time I mean Apple I
thought my phone was here but Apple you
know the phone got better over time that
I'm sure the your your cars will get
better over time you have been tweeting
about the the updates in in the roosters
there something that we should you did
mention the roaders so um like I don't
want to give
away you know much more than what I've
said uh publicly except that the
Roadster will be uh a collaboration
between SpaceX and Tesla so you know you
can expect some rockety stuff there a
flying
maybe it's not out of the question go on
no I I got to I got to reserve the cool
stuff for the you know when we actually
Avail it but it's it's it's going to
it's going to be really cool it's going
to have um it's going to have some
rocket technology in it um I think the
really the only way to do something
that's cooler than the Cyber truck is is
to combine the
SpaceX and and and and Tesla technology
to create something that's not even
really a
car then what would it be something
that's never existed before I'm getting
Jetson's Vibes totally Jetson's Vibes
it'll and the W may not be aware like
some things that I have said publicly is
that it'll do 0 to 60 in under 1 second
so um that's by far faster than any uh
you know sports car that that exists um
and um and that's not even the most
exciting thing about it does it have
wings no it does it does not have big
wings cuz big wings would be on wheel on
the road does it have propellers it does
not have propellers it has wheels does
have wheels
okay Road for 20 questions it has it
does it have a steering
wheel not exactly what is
it well it'll have it'll have a drive by
uh yoke essentially like
a kind of like the way aircraft are
modern jets are controlled and do you
think it's the way of the future that
everyone will follow your lead on this I
don't think anyone will ever make
anything like the uh the the road
through that that we're going to make
let's talk now about um SpaceX Tesla you
got a lot of lawsuits you've got x.com
you got a lot going on how do you relax
well um my I relax I spend time with my
kids my friend friends and I you know
make somewhat of a l technologist I like
playing video games so uh I'll play
video games with with with friends
online which one I me lately I've been
playing Diablo um and um but I've played
almost all the games over the years uh a
long time ago I was like Semi-Pro good
at Quake this is really dating me uh
because we're talking about
like one than 25 years ago I don't know
video games I just know that my uh my
great nephew loves fortnite and some
other stuff he's always with the
headphones and and doing the thing so
that helps you relax right so yeah and
you the nice thing is You' got if you've
got friends in different cities and
they're playing the same game you can
both go online at the same time and uh
play the game together even though
you're in different cities listen I'm
not asking you anything that anyone else
hasn't asked you about um your
controversial stuff that you tweet you
post a lot of controversial stuff is
that considered blowing off
steam
um well I I guess I do en enjoy using
the platform I mean I do call um the
xplatform the the PVP or player versus
player uh platform um so in video games
there's uh player versus like
environment um where you're not playing
against other people people um and then
there's PVP which is like hardcore
you're actually playing against other
people and uh but that's blowing off
steene for
you yeah yes it is to some degree not
always I mean obviously I use it for uh
to post jokes to post uh you
know sometimes trivia uh sometimes
things that are of great importance uh
so you do a lot of it at night like late
at night so when you're doing this are
you are you sober when you do it almost
always you under the influence of
anything uh no I don't I don't drink I
don't really no I no so you not no drink
no smoke no nothing I mean you smoke pot
with Rogan I had one puff yeah I think
anyone who smokes pot can tell I don't
know how to how to smoke PLT but you've
admitted that you've had you have a kety
prescription yeah yeah yeah what's that
for well I mean it's pretty private to
ask somebody about a medical
prescription you know um but uh it's I
think it's something I'd say like uh
there are times when I have
um sort of
uh I don't know like negative chemical
state in my in my brain uh like
depression I guess you know is or or or
like depression that's not linked to any
negative views um and and and then uh
kemy is helpful for uh getting you
getting one outs out of a negative frame
mind well listen I I in fact I generally
obviously I'm not a doctor but I would
say uh if someone has depression issues
they should consider talking to the
doctor about camine instead of ssris
listen I I think that um ketamine uh and
drug therapy is uh increasingly becoming
more in the mainstream yeah do you think
that you're doing it under a doctor's
care right yeah yeah literally
prescription from an actual a real
doctor not like you know yeah but do you
do you feel like you ever abuse it I
don't think so if use too much Academy
and you can't really get work done so I
have a lot of work
so I'm I'm typically putting in like you
know 16 hour days that's normal for me
and it's it's it's rare for me to even
take off a weekend day so I don't really
have like you know a situation where I
can be not mentally acute for an an
extented period of time like I can't I
can't really get wasted with when CU I
can't get my work done so how often do
you take it
um well it'd be like a small amount once
every other week or something like that
but there's I mean there's not on the
bottle where it says take this dose this
many times a week or whatever if it's
dose I there are several weeks to go by
where I don't use it you don't use it
yeah I think it's like I said I think
the the what I find K is if you if you
like literally like a chemical state in
your brain that you can't you can't just
think yourself out of then uh ketamine
can is helpful for getting you out of a
depressive mind State you suffer from
depression or you have a depressive mind
State and I asked is someone who has
suffered from ref first I wouldn't say
that I
I I wouldn't say that I have like a a
case of like extended depression um it's
just once in a while I get into a a
negative sort of chemical mind State
once in a while it's not a not a common
thing um but once in a while it this
happen where do you think that comes
from I think it's just genetic basically
you think it's just genetic history I
think so
um yeah I mean some people like just
wired wired to be happy all the time uh
some are unfortunately wired to be sad a
lot of the time um and in my case uh I'm
you know I'm generally pretty pretty
positive and optimistic uh but once in a
while uh I don't know what happens there
some uh like I said I think chemical
ties to your brain once in a while it's
like a brain
storm yeah do you ever worry that this
may get in the way of your government
contracts and clear es and also and Wall
Street as
well well from a standpoint of Wall
Street uh what matters is uh
execution you know uh are you building
value for investors um Tesla is worth
about as much as the rest of the car
industry combined from nothing so I you
know that's pretty good um as I
mentioned we we had the best selling car
on Earth last year um so for for
investors point if there is something
I'm taking I should keep taking
it have you you talk about your ketamine
use and depression have you you also
have said and the reason I I should say
like like the reason I mentioned uh the
cemy prescription on the xplatform was
because I thought maybe this is
something that could help other people
that's why I mentioned it yeah can we
talk about the great replacement Theory
now um some of the things that you post
a great replacement Theory you claim
that Democrats President Biden's
immigration plan to open up the Border
you said that there the president is
getting and Democrats are doing it to
get more votes
[Music]
um but undocumented immigrants cannot
vote in federal elections so how is that
possible right um well you're conflating
two things one is great replacement
Theory uh the other is which I I don't
subscribe to that I'm simply saying that
there is an incentive here uh if uh
legal immigrants wish I think have a a
very strong bias to at least everything
I've read it's very strong wise to vot
Democrat um the more more that come into
the country the more they're likely to
vote in that direction but it is in my
view uh a simple incentive to increase
uh voters to Democrat voters um and yeah
so question is like how so there's
there's a few there's a few ways that
this works one is that when the census
is done uh the census is based on all
all people in an area whether they are
CI citizens or not
so uh if there are a concentration of
uh people who came here illegally in in
a in a particular state or uh any
particular state that state will
actually then get uh an increased number
of House
Seats so the the house seat
apportionment is proportionate to the
number of people not the number of
citizens so the the the legals
overwhelmingly go to places like
California New York um and the
if you just look at the the math if if
if you look at the apportionment with
and without illegals I believe
California would lose I believe I
believe the blue State there would be a
net loss of blue states of approximately
20 seats in the
house now this also applies to the the
Electoral College so you say like well
this also applies to to electing the
president because the the same the
electoral votes are also done by by
apportionment the same way that house
seats are done but the reason Elan the
electoral college is in place is to to
balance that so that that doesn't happen
so what you're saying about it is the
exact opposite of the reason why the the
Electoral College is there the Electoral
College at this
point at this point in in our history
gives people who are in smaller States
and red States much more of an influence
over our elections than people who are
in blue States and the majority of the
people in this country that's what the
Electoral College does it actually does
the exact opposite of what you're saying
it protects people who are smaller
States and protects people who are in
red States well um red States because
they tend to be smaller and less
populous I think that that's that's
statement is is uh what you said is is
true but what I said is also true uh
which is that uh if if as is the case a
disproportionate number of legal
immigrants go to Blue States they
amplify the effect of a of a blue state
boat and the math as I understand it you
can research this obviously very easily
on the it's like it's pretty straight
for to to research this but my
understanding is that there would be uh
that that the the Democrats would lose
approximately 20 seats in the house uh
if illegals were not counted in census
and that's also 20 less electoral votes
for president so legals absolutely do
affect the uh who controls uh the house
of the house and who controls uh the
presidency it does not affect uh the
Senate yeah in blue States you're
talking about I don't believe that your
information on on on uh that is right um
so listen let's talk more about the
great replacement because the first time
you did you posted on exit about this
Jewish conspiracy you ended up
apologizing I didn't call it a conspir I
just said that there's a simple matter
of incentives you don't need a
conspiracy when you have basic
incentives in my view there's a basic
incentive there is fundamental uh that
uh for the Democrat Democratic party to
Foster and Usher in a large number of
legals and they and and and you don't
need a conspiracy in that case because
you have a very basic incentive you
could say I'm wrong about that incentive
but that's my view I I'm not buying to I
don't buying some great replacement
Theory I'm simply saying there appears
to be a very clear incentive for uh
Democrats to have to maximize number of
illegals um because it helps them Inn
election I'm talking about the great
replacement theory is also part of a
Jewish conspiracy theory and when you
did the Tweet or you responded to the
Tweet about that you ended up a oling
and which I think is you know it's good
that you end up apologizing you went to
awit with Ben Shapiro yeah so you said
you learned your lesson what did you
learn I said I learned my lesson you
said you learned your lesson when it
when you apologized and you said you
went to alth you saw what what no I was
already already aware of of of of these
things and the nature of my comment that
that really inflamed people um what I
was what I was trying to say and I did
very quickly clarify this what I'm
saying is that uh um a number of uh
prominent uh Jewish philanthropists fund
uh groups that they should really take a
closer look at funding because some of
the some of the groups they fund um I
think are anti-semitic yeah do you
understand the connection between the
two there one there's a connection
between you said Democrats a great
replacement Theory but when it comes to
the actual great replacement Theory
originally was started about Jewish
people as you said flooding in the
country and then now people are using
for Democrats saying the same thing
about Democrats flooding my view it's a
simple matter of incentives I I I'm I'm
I don't actually don't see an incentive
for uh Jewish people to want to have
that get legal immigration I don't I
don't think there is such an
incentive the great replacement theory
is a a Neo-Nazi Trope it's in the
Neo-Nazi Manifesto It's in the Turner
diary it's referenced by the Buffalo
Mass shooter uh and his Manifesto where
10 people um black people were murdered
in Buffalo his actual title of the
Christ Church Shooters Manifesto 51
people in the Muslim Mosque were
murdered 23 people uh murdered in El
Paso by a shooter who used the same
language that you use in that Manifesto
when you say Hispanic invasion is that
not I didn't say an Hispanic Invasion
and you tweeted you quoted a tweet that
said that called it a Hispanic
Invasion if I quote something it doesn't
mean I agree with anything ever the end
it it's is something that I want I think
this is something wor people should
consider why would you quote something
that you didn't believe because anything
I quote is going to have a whole range
of statements doesn't mean I agree with
everything in it do you think if there
you moderated yourself more if there was
better content moderation on the
platform that you wouldn't have to
answer these questions from reporters
about the great great replacement Theory
as it relates I have to question great
replacement Theory as it relates to
Jewish people do you think that I don't
have to answer questions from reporters
Don the only reason I've beening this is
because you're on the xplatform and you
asked for it m otherwise I would not do
inter with this interview so you don't
think you do you think that you wouldn't
get in trouble or you wouldn't be
criticized for these things criz
possibly I could care less it you don't
you don't care no I don't care why not I
don't think people should care what the
media thinks about them they're terrible
judges of
character even someone who has one of
the biggest social media and biggest
information Platforms in the world you
don't think you don't care you don't
think that there's you have any x.com or
you have any responsibility to the truth
moderating the platform you're
conflating the truth with the with the
media and I think the media is uh not
truthful well not with just the the
media I mean just the truth in general I
care about the truth very much that's
why we have for example commun Community
notes on the gek system um where uh in
order for Community note to surface and
uh provide corrective information about
what somebody posts and and my f s
equally subject to this my I've been
been a community noted many times um the
in order for before Community notes a
surface uh people who have historically
disagreed must agree in order for a
community note to surface and all of the
code for Community notes is open source
all of the data is open source so you
can completely recreate it from scratch
the way to build trust is transparency I
have noticed Community notes I think
that you are right about that I do think
Community notes are helpful I think any
type of content moderation I do think
that's helpful you recently called
content moderation though a digital
chastity belt do you think that you you
believe that X and you have some
responsibility to moderate hate speech
on the
platform I think we have a
responsibility to adhere to the law and
we have a responsibility to be
transparent uh about when things are
shown why they're shown uh so we that's
why we uh open source our algorithm um
the I think once you start getting going
beyond the law now you're putting your
thumb on the scale and we don't want to
put out that on the scale it doesn't
concern you that hate speech is gone
research shows that it's gone up on the
platform since you took over that's not
concerning to you I believe that is
false in fact the research that I've
seen it says it it went down the study
from The Institute of strategic dialogue
found that anti-semitic tweets doubled
from June 22 to February 2023 one study
reported that as many as 86% of the
posts reported for hateful content
remained up after being reported hate
speech on the platform is up uh so what
what they will typically do is they will
count the number of posts but not count
the number of views so what matters is
was that uh post given high visibility
or what did like one person see it uh
and if you look at the number of views
of how how many how many times was ha
content viewed on our platform it is
down substantially yeah well that's not
was what the study shows and you said
you like transparency I'm going to show
you this and and you can get a study
that will tell you whatever you want but
this is these are just a handful of
extremely you look at those anti-Semitic
and racist tropes and tweets and as of
this morning they're still on
X and from your own content policy these
posts should have been deleted so why
haven't they been deleted why are they
still there did
you uh we delete things if they are
illegal but these have been up there for
a while are they illegal they're not
illegal but they're hateful and they can
they can lead to
violence as I just read to you the
shooters
you know in all of these mass shootings
attributed social media to radicalizing
so don you love censorship is what
you're saying no I don't love censorship
then why why you ask I believe in
moderation but I I don't believe in
censorship is a moderation is a
propaganda word for censorship but don't
you think free speech is one thing right
or not you know look if something's
illegal we're going to take it down if
it's not illegal then we're putting out
them on the scale and we're beinging
censors you're putting your thumb on the
scale for moderating hate speech I mean
you don't put out child porn pornography
that's not it's illegal that some people
would say that's considered censorship
I'm just saying you no I literally D you
I literally said if if something is
legal okay we will obviously remove it
okay but if it is not
legal if the laws of this country were
are put forward by the citizens we a
democracy if those laws put in place uh
by the by the people we adhere to those
laws laws of others if you go beyond the
law you're actually going beyond the
will of the people okay agreed with the
law but if you are doing something that
promotes hate and violence and
ultimately leads to killing you don't
feel there's you have any responsibility
not to do that uh when when when the
people who are doing it admittedly are
saying articles all the time that lead
to to violence and killing um don't they
shouldn't they
like you're applying a differential
standard to but that would never that
would never be in mainstream media these
types of images that type of language
those things would never be we'd never
in M when I was in mainstream media we'd
never promote things that um would would
be anti-semitic we would never promote
things antic
either did you you did you not see those
you said promote if if content is on the
platform that doesn't mean we promote it
but that wouldn't be on on a platform
for mainstream media at all no but you
can think of that that's because the
mainstream media is has like whatever 20
articles a day uh we have 500 million
posts today million does it bother you
how do you feel about that when you see
it I obviously disagree with
that I think it's it's not good at all
it's terrible but you don't want
to get rid of it on the platform or at
least moderate it the lules you're your
what you're suggesting is censorship
that goes beyond the law and what I'm
saying is Uh I that we I guess have a
disagreement because I do not believe in
censorship that goes beyond the law and
you do we have a difference of opinion
in that regard I understand that but
these are your own rules on your own
platform the these go against the rules
on your platform that's why I'm asking
you if you had if you said listen we
allow everything but that's not what
your content rules say and that's why
I'm asking you why are they still
there the your own content policy that's
why I'm asking you that not because
which part of our content policy says
that we have we should delete these the
these things your content policy talks
about hate speech Yes we don't promote
hate spe hate speech and so you don't
consider that hate
speech I guess you're understanding what
I'm saying there's there's there's if if
if there's you can find like you can
sign up right now and and and do a
hundred things that are hateful um but
if nobody reads it it doesn't
matter so you you can think of X as
being it's much like the Internet it's
not some some tiny publication with like
20 articles it's 500 million uh but
everyone has the opportunity to read a
Elon theity to read the internet are you
said it suggesting we should shut down
the internet no but but you don't own
the internet I'm asking you about you
and your responsibility and your
platform and I I so I see how you feel
now you don't agree we don't agree on
this yes you want censorship and I don't
no I don't want censorship at all yes
you do no I want responsibility I think
there's I think there you desperately
want censorship no if I want to
censorship you want censorship so bad
you can taste it no that's not true it's
not true I think that there's right and
wrong what and I and I think that when
you have a platform that's as big as
yours and as powerful as yours and as
inferential as yours and you are a
person of consequence to the world with
what you do that there is a certain
responsibility that goes along with what
you have on your platform and what you
put out to the world and I I think
that's important you don't see that
responsibility
um I think the we have a responsibility
to uh adhere to the law um and if people
want the law changed they should talk to
elect talk to their elected
representative and get the law changed
and then we will adhere to the law okay
but if you want us to go beyond the law
that is that is uh us deciding to be
censors so and I'm against censorship
I'm I'm in favor of freedom of speech
and freedom of speech only is relevant
when people you don't like say things
you don't like otherwise it has no
meaning but I I do think that there are
there should be guard
rails and I believe in free speech as
much as you I would fight I don't I
don't disagree I don't agree with um a
lot of what you put out on social media
but I will fight for your right to be
able to say it great yeah okay so listen
let's talk about diversity equity and
inclusion all right that's been a target
of yours lately on X you uh on there was
a repost of Ben Bureau that you claim
that Dei is killing people specifically
you point to medicine you claim that Dei
programs are putting people at risk do
you really believe this to be true and
what evidence do you have to support it
um what I was referring to there was
that if uh if we lower the standards for
doctors uh such so that they you know if
if the test for a doctor is lowered uh
then the probability of them making a
mistake and killing someone is obviously
going to be higher wait say that again I
I'm not sure I understand what you said
I want to make sure I understand what
you're saying actually yes if if these
if the stands for passing medical exams
and becoming a doctor or especially
something like a surgeon if the standat
lowered uh uh then the probability that
the S will make mistake is higher
they're making mistakes in their exam
they they may make mistakes with people
and that may result people dying what
evidence do you have though that they're
lowering the standards there's no
evidence of that belief there is there's
no evidence of that Elon what what is
the evidence I I believe they have
literally lowered the standards at at
Duke University and that is what the
article was referring to there's no they
have not lower the standards there's no
evidence about uh lowering standards and
I think that there is um leave that as a
false statement you're making okay well
we we'll figure it out yeah I think
inter thing is when this is posted on
the xplatform there will be a whole
bunch of things that reut what you said
and what what I said and so people can
then make their own decision based on
the replies and the rebuttal and the
community notes I think that's fair but
I do think that on this particular topic
I do think that you and Ben Shiro are
reaching in about this because there was
a what what Ben posted said that people
were he gave instances of people who
were deliberately uh harming people um
nowhere in the thread does Ben suggest
at all I should say that anyone is being
killed as a a result of Dei um that's
purely
speculative there's research on Dei and
medicine and there's no
no evidence that standards are being
lowered okay that Dei is affecting
medicine actually like only five% of
doctors are black and a small
percent yeah I think you'll find that
when this is posted to ex platform that
uh people will reply to it with evidence
Maybe I'm Wrong let's see okay so but
that's my whole thing about moderation
maybe you're wrong but you'll put it out
there you don't know if it's right do
you think that your responsibility to
make sure something is right before you
the person who owns it Elon Musk who's a
huge figure in the world that you should
know that it's true that some there are
people at X who can get research for you
before you put something out there like
that that's not necessarily true even in
other
examples um if I say something that uh
is inaccurate I'm immediately corrected
on the platform that's the advantage of
a real-time uh system like X so there
will be immediately in the replies corre
people correcting me there will be
Community note that will correct me um
which is attached to the actual post
itself do you think as many people read
the yes you think as many people read
that as it reads your Tweet yes in fact
and if if there's a community note that
happens uh later that or somebody didn't
see but they replied to that uh
interacted with that post we will notify
them that there is now a community note
correcting that post M just so you
whereas if you consider the conventional
media that doesn't happen conventional
media makes false statements all the
time with no and nobody ever hears the
correction when I was in conventional
media I can only speak for myself if I
got something wrong or if someone got
something wrong on the platform that
that I was on it was corrected and we
made sure that it was corrected now I
can't speak for anyone else that's I
think I don't think that's a universal
situation okay so I just want just the
research so when you talk do you believe
that people are dying because medical
standards Dei is causing medical
standards to be lowered do you actually
believe people are dying because of that
I I believe that uh if if we if we lower
the stats for what it takes to become a
doctor you're saying if we lower the
stands but do you believe people are
dying because the standards are being
lowered I I don't or have think that is
yes an issue but it could become an
issue okay but the actual evidence in
history shows the exact opposite if you
look at how minorities are treated by
the medical
system most doctors most doctors now are
white and there are lots of mistakes in
medicine so you're saying
that my doctors are have bad Medical
Care I'm trying to understand your logic
here when it comes to Dei because
there's no actual evidence of what
you're
saying no I I said so if the standards
like like let's say uh I think that
particular thing was referring to
surgeons let's say surgeon is is asked
to a a surgeon in training is asked to
do a series of operations under the
supervision of a senior surgeon and they
get a bunch of those operations
wrong if if if if that happens and if
they are still approved to be a surgeon
the probability that someone will die I
think at some point is high okay I
understand that but that's a
hypothetical that doesn't mean it's
happening I didn't say it's
happening you you didn't say it was
happening I said I said it will you but
I said if if if if we lower status
people people will
die but why respond to something or put
something out there that has not
happened because I could say you know I
don't want it to happen I think we don't
lowest lowest standards okay if you look
at the history of the medical industry
um especially when it comes to Black
Americans it shows the exact opposite if
you look at the Tuskegee experiment and
on and on only 5% of doctors are in
America are black all of them are white
so are you saying that if the majority
of doctors are white are you saying that
D and there are still these inequities
right and there's and people still
they're still mistakes are you blaming
Dei for that no I'm I'm very very basic
Al saying that if we lower standards uh
for what it takes to become uh a Bo
certified surgeon uh or you know an
oncologist or something where that where
the the kind of disease we're talking
about if you make a mistake causes
someone to die then there more people
will die than if we don't lower the
standards therefore we should not lower
the standards but why do you think
they're lowering the standards for
minority doctors or women doctors
or that's what the the that's what that
article suggested yes
at at Duke University okay the evidence
that I have shows that that's not true
so listen after the door blew off this
um mid-flight in this Alaskan Airlines
flight do you remember that um you
responded a post claiming that the
average H HBCU grad was less intelligent
than the average airline pilot uh and
stated that it will take an airline
crashing an airplane crashing and
killing hundreds of people for them to
change this crazy policy of diie I don't
know if you did you misspell it on
purpose which should be de EI do you
believe that women and minority Pilots
are inherently less intelligent and less
skilled than white male Pilots no I'm
just saying that we should not lower the
standards for
okay but there's no evidence that
standards are being lowered when it
comes to the airline industry you've
repeatedly said that there's no evidence
that standards being lowered and watch
the replies showing all the evidence
that it is replies though on social
media are are not necessarily fact and
evidence that's people they will site
all the the rep in the replies to this
you will see how often the this the the
information is cited showing that indeed
there are significant uh cases where uh
standards are lowered and I do hope that
happens I do hope that happens and and I
look forward to and as you said if
you're wrong then you're wrong and if
I'm wrong then I'm wrong yes okay so
let's so and I'm glad we're having this
conversation debate this is what you
should we should be doing debating the
issue so if I'm wrong then I'm wrong and
then they'll be proven in the thing and
you as well but I just want to tell you
that that pilot that you talked about in
fact was a woman pilot landed the plane
safe safely despite the major
malfunction with the equipment Boeing
has taken responsibility for that
incident saying that it was caused by a
faulty door panel so I'm not sure what
that had to do with lowering the
standards for Pilots when it was a FAL
not lowering standards for Pilots it's
it's the the inent of structure uh I I
believe at Boeing changed to uh include
Dei as as uh as as a fundamental
executive
incentive um so but in my view it should
be purely about passenger safety okay
but do you
understand how by saying just that
standards are being lowered that you're
implying that they're being lowered
because people are less skilled and less
intelligent and you're talking about
people of color and or
women
uh look I'm I'm saying we should not
lower standards but do you you don't
that's
it I think everyone can agree that you
can't you shouldn't lower standards
right that's but you're implying that
they're lowering standards because of
people of color or women because someone
is not a white male you're saying that
they're less skilled and less
intelligent that's what you're say no
I'm not saying that I'm simply saying
that they are then why would they be
lowering the standards I don't know why
are they lowering the standards just so
you know 5% of Pilots are female 4% are
black so you're you know you're talking
about this widespread takeover
minorities and women when that's not
actually
true I'm not saying this why I take over
well you're saying that the standards
are being lowered because of certain
people um you how do you you don't
believe in Dei right do you not believe
divers in diversity equity and inclusion
I think we should be uh treat people uh
according to their
skills uh and their integrity and that's
it do you know that study show study
show yeah well we can look him up well
so your reaction to study show and
understand right because I always like
to say I always like to point to an
exact uh study right sure something that
is factual it's the same thing when you
talk about well let's see what the
replies are on Twitter or on X I so I
feel the same I feel the same way about
that but this is what studies have sh
and people will reply and they'll say
that companies with more diversity and
their leadership teams have reported
higher Innovation raceing those with a
lower um with lower diversity a low
diversity
and they they're better companies and
they make more money this whole idea
about Dei if you go woke or whatever you
go broke that's not necessarily true
people with diverse leadership teams and
diverse um workers make more money and
Innova um like I said my view is that
the the only basis for promoting
somebody should be uh their skills
talents and uh their integrity and
that's
I want to ask you about there's a
there's a federal government uh EEOC
they are also currently involved in a
lawsuit against Tesla that alleges that
there's a history of widespread racial
harassment against black Tesla employees
as well as a pattern of retaliation for
speaking
out what do you say to that uh well uh
there's I I don't believe that is that
is true um I think we've got a very good
uh uh like if if you walk around the the
te the Tesla Fremont plant I think it's
a very good atmosphere
um in fact I I practically lived there
for 3 years trying to make the
production work were you aware if you
live there were you aware of such
Behavior I never saw
it so you're saying that this is not
true it's not happening well I mean
there's over 20,000 people so you say
like if there's over 20,000 people in
one building um well is everyone going
to be behaved publicly no did I see any
any situations that I thought were uh
improper I did not uh let's talk about
trans rights and the woke mind virus
because youve talk about that a lot
you're right about that a lot on the
thing you have been deeply outspoken
about the issue of trans right you
posted trans writes you posted that
pronouns in bio mean the woke mind virus
ate your
brain do you know what the term woke
actually
means
um it's come to mean a lot of things but
what it actually what originally it was
meant to mean it's just being aware of
inequities in society and and being
aware of facts and and history yeah I
think it's come to
be I think I think being aware of
inequities in society is fine of course
um but uh trying to blame everything uh
on on trying to make everything a race
issue is uh I think a divisive and
corrosive to
society even as it relates to trans
isues which is what I'm yeah race or you
know gender or whatever you think
blaming you think that Society blames
everything on racism
now it blames a lot of things on it and
uh yeah you think that's unfair yeah why
I think I think we should we should uh
not not make this a constant uh subject
I think we need to move on I think we're
just you know um treat people like
people
you don't agree that there's this
country was founded on racism and
founded on slavery and and in many ways
inequities um that's still continue on
to the St I think every country uh at
that time and I think even today was
extremely racist um every country um and
um obviously a uh slavery was present in
uh by half this country um and no but
not was not present in the in the uh
North uh there was racism for sure uh
but you know the I I think we we we want
to look to the future rather than the
past um and uh instead of engaging in uh
constant rehashing of the past uh
because in fact if you look at history
if you study history broadly everyone
was a slate
everyone yes well not everyone was a
slave everyone was a slave okay but we
we are we are we are all descended from
slaves yeah all of us yeah um it's just
a question of when is a was it more
recent or less recent that's it right um
so the but what what Future do We want
is this something we want to make part
about constant dialogue forever or do do
we want to say like let's just move on
and treat everyone uh you know
uh according to just who they are as an
individual I agree with you with that
that's the ideal but what the evidence
shows is that that's not what's actually
practice I think we're do it better than
anywhere else that that's true I agree
with that but that doesn't mean anything
that doesn't mean a lot to a whole lot
of people who are able to take advantage
of the opportunities that you were able
to take advantage of simply because the
color of your
skin what advant what what advantage is
my color my skin give well there's a
certain there's an ease that you have in
society that you that many people of
color don't you were able to come to
this country voluntarily there are many
people who were not able to come to the
country voluntarily there people who
came here as slaves me to come here and
there is a legacy of slavery that still
continues on there's a legacy of racism
that still continues on in this country
that's and that's
undeniable well if if if we keep talking
about it non-stop it will never go
away if we keep making up the central
thing it will never go
away well why do you believe
that I think I'm just making a simple
statement of fact um
so I think I think we want to get away
from making everything a race or a
gender or whatever issue and just treat
people like
individuals do you have any desire to
understand what many people of color and
even trans people um how they feel about
this country and how they're treated in
this country if they if they say and
they believe that they are treated a
certain way in this country why don't
you believe them you you cannot have a
situation where where someone is a
self-described victim and and they and
they just get to be that because that's
how they feel I think that that does
happen in some cases but not all cases
and I think that not understanding the
history of the country I think is um is
a real shame look I've had we should
country and other countries I've had
incredible opportunities as a person of
color right but I've also been but I've
also been discriminated against and I
know that I have and I know that that's
real and for someone to say that that
isn't happened and I should not I should
just move forward and not think about
that and ignore the past is insulting
I'm not saying it D you keep putting
words in my mouth I'm not saying it's I
didn't say that you said I'm saying that
we want to we we as we as a country
should move Beyond questions of of of
race and gender and we should treat
people like individuals and and base our
opinions on them on the you know uh
their uh their their character and their
skills I don't think that anyone will
disagree with that exactly all I'm
saying is that that's not happening and
is not equal for everyone that those
opportunities don't happen for everyone
and I am a living example that they
don't I know that they don't because I
it you've been incredibly successful I
have been in spite of it all but I but I
am I know what I know I've experence
what I've experienced you haven't done
that and I cannot um I don't know what
it's like to be from South Africa I
don't know what it's like to be a white
man I don't know what it's like to be a
woman I don't know what it's like to be
Latino person I don't know that so I
wouldn't speak for them and just say you
need to move on that's not for me to say
I maybe I believe that the country it
would be great if the country could live
up to that ideal you think that everyone
has the same opportunities in America
regardless of their background and E
ethnicity do you agree you no I don't
think everyone has the same option AIDS
okay so um when you talk about let's
talking about trans right when you
decided to um to talk about the the
trans Rights Movement um you said that
it was a woke mind virus why do you
believe the trans Rights Movement is a
woke mind virus what do you mean by woke
virus WWI viruses um when you you st
carry about uh
people's skills um and their integrity
and you start focusing instead on gender
and Brace and other things that are
different from that um I think uh the
worldwi virus is fundamentally racist
fundamentally sexist and fundamentally
evil okay and we've got a little bit
more time so you choose your question
okay so okay thank you for that but you
I would appreciate you answering these I
think it's important that doing this I
think it's important to the to world the
world to hear this especially what's
going on uh in our country the reason I
ask you listen there are a whole lot of
things that people may be uh have
questions about when it comes to
transgender people even people who are
part of the lgbtq plus Community have
questions about that but if you are a
free speech absolutist right um and that
is part of the First Amendment also the
freedom of expression falls under that
first amendment as well so why can't
people choose to identify with the
gender that they feel comfortable with
or with a use a pronoun isn't that part
of freedom of
expression uh I guess though they can
they can ask others to do whatever they
feel they they can ask others to do
anything what it it's a different
question where they whether they mandate
that others do that thing okay let's
let's talk more about free speech and
for advertisers right because all this
controversy I believe as you know has
made um X less appealing to advertisers
about half of them have left the
platform you call advertisers that left
x.com he said there were oppressors
you've even gone as far as saying it
publicly that they can go f themselves
or go [ __ ]
themselves ad if they're if they're
going to force censorship on on the
company uh before advertising then uh
obviously I find that unacceptable you
find it unacceptable why is that not a
form of of free speech they are free to
advertise where they want they're not
beholden to they're not obligated to
advertise next.com right so
how is that not free
speech they they that's whereas the
other platforms will censor on behalf of
of advertisers the xplatform will
not okay so but you think it's you don't
think it's okay for them not
to advertise with or have their content
or their advertisement next to something
that is anti-Semitic or that is a
different question uh
you you we there's there's you can
absolutely choose where next to which
content do you want your advertising to
appearer absolutely of course and we do
we have I think very good ad placement
controls in this regard yeah so you said
if they kill the company it's them but
doesn't the buck stop with you I
mean I have to
say choose your question carefully
there's five minutes left okay but so is
this the question you want to ask the
same question question is you said you
said that they are killing the company
but you're the head of the company the
buck doesn't stop with
you I acquired X in order to preserve
freedom of speech in America the First
Amendment and I'm going to stick to that
and if that means making less money so
it so I have to be listen I I'm just
being honest right I'm not trying to
like get you or anything I was just
surprised that you would blame other
people for killing the company I mean
you're the I mean when you say the buck
stops with the president of the United
States regardless of what happens right
so I why would the why would that
question upset you seem upset by it are
you I think you're and I'm not trying to
upset you the well you are upsetting me
because the way you're phrasing
questions I think is is not cogent um
it's not what not cogent cogent yes go
ahead uh so uh the
if if if if given a choice where an
Advertiser is saying like you have to
censor all this content on the platform
irrespective of where advertising
appears uh then our answer will be like
look you you you can choose where you
want your advertising what you want your
Advertiser to appear next to but you
can't insist on censorship of the entire
platform if you insist on censorship of
the entire platform even where your
advertising doesn't appear uh then uh
obviously we will we will not uh want
them as an Advertiser so what what would
you say to advertisers to who have left
the platform or who are considering
coming back or not coming back what
would you like to say to them well first
of all uh almost all of our advertisers
are coming back P so it's a very short
list of advertisers who are not coming
back to platform um and uh our
advertising revenue is rising
rapidly uh and our subscription revenue
is rising rapidly and I feel very
optimistic about the future of the X B
okay listen I'm not I'm honestly I'm not
meaning to offend you you're an intense
person where does that intensity come
from I was Bor that
way and had a tough
childhood you did so yeah how
so right wford isacson goes into it in
the book and and we only have a couple
minutes left so all right too long to
describe um so there one or two
questions I can do and then we'll to
call it I okay again I don't mean to
upset you why are you you
just no I have a whole room full of
people waiting to meet with me okay so
we're just going over time okay all
right I understand that um so you when
you talk about you said you were born
that way is that
um did you you think that the way that
you see the world has to do with your
relationship with anyone perhaps your
your father or someone in in your
family I think we're all affected by the
people we we grow up with um my
aspiration is to uh do whatever it takes
to extend the extend Consciousness into
the future that's my goal um to make
life multiplanetary as part of extending
con Consciousness is the Future Has This
has have the past few years and
considering everything that's gone on
has it been difficult for you in your
family
life it's been okay so then how do you
see your legacy Elon H how how do you
see how people see you in first of all I
the um if I died knowing that I that I
did what was right or or did my best to
do what was right and even if in the
history books they said I did did wrong
I would still feel okay about that I
care about the reality of goodness not
the perception of it um I think we
should view civilization uh as tenuous
as fragile um if you if you do study
history broadly you'll see the VIS right
and P civilizations they don't always go
up um so we should do everything we
possibly can to preserve uh and and
extend civilization as we know it yeah
um andove it um it's become more
enlightened over time and we uh
therefore want to address civilizational
risks uh we want to make sure that uh we
don't have for example demographic
collapse which is the case in a lot of
countries uh just very little birth rate
um we want to avoid obviously avoid
World War III anything that is a
civilizational risk that's what I care
about civilizational risks um how do we
extend Consciousness into the future
such that we are able
to better
understand the the nature of reality
that's what I care about that's my
motivation I know you have to go if
you'll just give me I'll do a rapid fire
thing here is if there is there anything
that you would change about um anything
that you've done in your life in the
past or recently um I've made vending
mistakes over the years if I had a time
machine i' go back and fix them uh but I
don't have a time machine thank you
thank you I appreciate it thank you so
much so that's it and as Elon would say
you be the judge let me tell you
something about this show the
conversation doesn't end just because
the camera
stops we'll see you next time thanks for
watching thanks for watching the Don
Lemon show click on the image on the top
right to subscribe to my channel and the
thumbnail and the bottom right to watch
more content from my show I'll see you
next time
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