AI and Podcasting: How Artificial Intelligence is Shaping the Future of Broadcas...

Transcript

Jeff Bullas

00:00:05 - 00:00:45

Hi, everyone and welcome to the Jeff Bullas Show. Today I have with me Josef Schinwald, Josef is CEO of Guest Experts on Air, his diverse experiences in the media landscape, ranging from associate publisher to vice president of a multinational newspaper throughout Latin America and a professor in paradigmatic business designs at three universities. I'm actually struggling with that term Josef. So welcome to show and let's have a chat about podcasting, AI, business, and marketing.

Josef Schinwald

00:00:46 - 00:00:58

Fantastic. Thank you very much Jeff that I was invited to be on your show on the Jeff Bullas Show. And uh you know, I really look forward to this interview because I think we resonate on those topics you just mentioned.

Jeff Bullas

00:00:59 - 00:01:02

So how did you get into I suppose social media, and podcasting? So how did your journey start actually?

Josef Schinwald

00:01:12 - 00:01:40

But all things interviews are good because when I was an Austrian, I started in the States, I got a job at the Hemisphere newspaper. I ended up in Buenos Aires and there I was invited after I was also teaching at the university like 50 times to television and uh it was one of my highlights just to be on television. And so when I saw the opportunity after, you know, I was doing internet marketing when I went back to Canada. At that time,

Josef Schinwald

00:01:40 - 00:02:24

I was seeing the opportunity with ecommerce, I was there and in the beginning in 2006 with a stamp on it. There was the first internet marketing community. There were all the pictures, all of your brain, the good brains, the high level people who were almost faculty, they taught you everything but internet marketing. So I got very good ecommerce in the wedding industry. Make me $400,000 a year with search engine optimization. But then I was living the dream life in Central America, 10 years of beautiful beaches with my laptop. And then suddenly I was basically Google punished me for being intelligent and doing the search engine optimization. Then I became more interested

Josef Schinwald

00:02:24 - 00:02:51

in what I really want to do. And that was I remembered how I got really great clients in Buenos Aires for consulting from my interviews. And then when the podcasting started, I said to myself, I don't want to go anymore to selling products because I'm dependent maybe on it. But I didn't want to be dependent on Facebook. These are as platforms, right? But they are not mine, they can like Google.

Josef Schinwald

00:02:52 - 00:03:41

I was on the number one page for nine, for nine years. And then I was only on the third page in Google search engine results. So I didn't want to depend on them anymore. And there was also then the thing with Amazon, but I was tired of products also. So I started thinking about what is something I really want to do where I rely only on myself and my expertise. And that was actually something that I could help other experts get the visibility, the brand, create their plan and, and leverage audiences, which they didn't even build themselves because they're leveraging other people's audiences. So broadcast guesting. And when I started out five years ago, I immediately attracted some really high level people and I’ve really enjoyed it since then.

Jeff Bullas

00:03:42 - 00:03:46

OK. So what fascinates you about podcasting today?

Josef Schinwald

00:03:48 - 00:04:21

First of all, you know, in the age of AI, there will be a lot of artificial stuff and then you have like, when you can use it, it's great, but you have to, to see the human aspect in it. So it's like, you know, when you have in the future, there will be May. Maybe I just heard it this morning in an interview. Um It was very, very interesting with Walter Op. I don't know if you heard about him, but he said the future will be that the people who there will be people, the rich ones the wealthy ones who actually tell robots what to do

Josef Schinwald

00:04:22 - 00:04:51

and the robots, they will tell everybody else what to do. So you have to use the AI in a way that it is that you use it, you get a bigger brain through it and you can use it in your human humanness, you know, and particularly when you are on broadcasts and you are a thought leader because you have used AI in your research, you know, and you can use it really well in your research, you can use it to become a thought leader

Josef Schinwald

00:04:51 - 00:05:15

and or you use it just, you know, like I prepared myself for your interview with you because I look at your website, I look at my website, I ask questions and I have a chat with chatGPT and so I know what we resonate with, right? So actually that is what is good with podcasting because you get an opportunity to show your human face while everything else is always becoming more and more artificial intelligence,

Josef Schinwald

00:05:15 - 00:06:01

why you use it, you know, the intelligence, but you get the personal touch because you are interviewed. And then you can also nowadays with the social media, you know, you can actually again show your face with certain small clips of these interviews, which is a content marketing strategy for the whole year. Because if you have a podcast casting tour, like with us, you're getting maybe 20, 30 high end podcasts where the interviewers like you, they ask pointed questions because they are intelligent people, so you're getting to talk about your expertise from different different angles, perspectives. And it will be always interesting for your audience, your wider audience and you, when they see the scripts on social media just one minute because they are not necessarily

Josef Schinwald

00:06:02 - 00:06:50

so uh not necessarily podcast uh subscribers, but they see you all the time on social media. You will get that status and that authority, the status is the go to expert for what you talk all the time about. And then the authority because of the perception is the myth and that is not necessarily what is true, but you don't have to change. It's not, it's not unethical. What happens is the myth is that you are constantly being invited while you have an agency or you put yourself to the broadcast host, you research them, you pitch because they're not looking for you. There are so many out there. But the experts particularly because the broadcast hosts, they get so many pitches themselves, you know, they're not looking for somebody unless it's a very specific broadcast.

Jeff Bullas

00:06:50 - 00:06:57

Yep. So it was really interesting. I had a chat recently and he'd used Chat GPT so I said, how did you find me? And he said I used Chat GPT to actually plug in blogging and AI into chat GPT and you showed up and I went really? So I went. So the reason you're actually wanting to have a chat is because of chatGPT. And I found that fascinating.

Josef Schinwald

00:07:28 - 00:08:06

Yes, it is. You know, it's like we are the first ones. If you, if you, it's like the para time shift, I told the Paramatti beyond the time is basically Para's beyond the spoken word, para tig, it's beyond. And the para time shift is basically, it's always happening. You cannot avoid it. It's like re-inventing, re-inventing, reinventing yourself and what you do because nothing stays the same. Eline just said it. The ancient Greek philosopher change is the only constant nothing changes but change. So actually, when you are now in that profit model several, actually, that is the

Josef Schinwald

00:08:06 - 00:08:32

the first mover advantage because you are familiarizing yourself already every day with. This is AI and you can use it for marketing and for your business and you do it every day and you know, it takes time, everything could take some time, you have to learn it and then you have the learning curve, another profit model. So ultimately, you will also have a profit model of lower cost for your business. Sounds cool. But a lot of people, they say 40% will lose their jobs

Josef Schinwald

00:08:33 - 00:08:54

in the beginning already means this becomes more and more popular. So then you have to be there in the beginning. It's a you know, the wisdom of Charles Darwin. It's not like when people misunderstand really what it is to survive the fittest. It is the ones who first adopt, you adopt fast, you lose your life.

Jeff Bullas

00:08:57 - 00:09:08

So for me, I'm curious about social media now, I'm very curious about AI, so how does AI impact what you're doing with your business?

Josef Schinwald

00:09:11 - 00:09:56

Research. Like when I, when I get a new client, you know, I get clients, they are elite professionals. So sometimes it would take me really, like probably a week to really dig into their website, what is so unique about them. They have to know where they have been interviewed and all this. So with AI, it's fantastic for research. So I went, I developed the positioning the pitch because I have to present the client as a strawberry, like right in front of the face of the podcast host, the better, the more I get because, you know, I look, I look at those unique things because, you know, as a podcast host, let's say, let's talk about a life coach. I mean, there are millions of life coaches out there.

Josef Schinwald

00:09:56 - 00:10:39

You can't just say I'm a life coach when you go, when you want to reach an elite podcast, right? So you have to dig down and you have to find that thing which makes you unique with the table of discussion worldwide. Globally wants you to, to express your opinion. So you're getting it, you know, I, I think I made myself clear, it helps me a lot. This research, um the statistics I write also about my expertise as a, as a podcast booker, but the elite podcast booker, so to speak, right? And uh it's very, very good. I read books about it. Many books, there are many books out there, you know, and that is very important also, like books for thought leaders, uh books, for authors and uh all these things, you know.

Jeff Bullas

00:10:40 - 00:10:48

Ok, so you're in the podcast space. So what would you recommend to people that actually wanna get really great guests on the show?

Josef Schinwald

00:10:50 - 00:11:23

All right, you have to, first of all, you know what I see often is we still struggle sometimes with that uh one barrier with that fear of public speaking, right? That you have to acknowledge it. We are all afraid of it. Some people say the fear is bigger than the fear of death, right? Well, I have been on television many times and I tell you the first time I was on television, it was like I disappeared. I was like seeing myself from above on the, on the chair and then I didn't see myself anymore. But after a while, it became so fun because I really loved it.

Josef Schinwald

00:11:24 - 00:11:43

And uh that is the first thing. The second thing is you, you know, the ego, everybody is an ego and it's a good thing, it's a representation of who we are. But if it's out of order, if it's, it's like I get sometimes also people on the phone call and I feel like, you know, they expect the broadcast host to

Josef Schinwald

00:11:44 - 00:12:28

take them because they're so great. But, you know, you have to really think about the podcast host has been working for years on those on the show he created and was very disciplined. He worked on those audiences. Now that podcast, a guest wants to be there, he wants to speak in front of the audience. What does he bring? So the podcast guest has to really think of the one who wants to be promoted on podcast shows and wants to show his expertise and wants to become visible and wants to sell his book and wants to get new clients. He has to understand really that's all you receive. You want to be on a podcast show, you better think that showing in your pitch already that you have a very unique value from the content perspective and that you bring some very valuable

Josef Schinwald

00:12:28 - 00:12:49

talk through that kind of podcast and that you will share it on your social media. And if that is a very good social media presence that will help you a lot getting a podcast. If they are not very good and you don't have a book, then you better make sure that you have a very unique topic. Yeah. But it's always competitive. You, you must be unique, you know.

Jeff Bullas

00:12:49 - 00:12:58

So you mentioned the term must be unique. Take me there.

Josef Schinwald

00:12:59 - 00:13:45

OK. See, uniqueness is a good topic because as I told you earlier, you know, I like spirituality. I have my own podcast called Home By the Beach. It's a fun podcast. I have really great guests on it, but I just do it because I like to do podcasting and uniqueness. When you think about it in spiritual terms, it's like, you know, I mean, there is infinite potentiality in this world and you somehow have this dream where, where you didn't blame the dream, it's out of control. Actually, that dream we are living is out of control. We are basically deciding not to be it to the universe which we are and we are born. It's a certain time, we are born differently. We are born in different places

Josef Schinwald

00:13:45 - 00:14:27

and then comes all these desires we have for certain experiences in life. And then when we reach a certain age, we are quite unique, you know, and when we know that, that we are not playing Manilla, that we are not everybody, even though we are me, everybody is a me, a universal self. But we are here to entertain ourselves and learn from each other. We are very diverse. So that's uniqueness. If you want to make money with some uniqueness, then you better make sure that you, that it has a great value to the people you offer your service, right? Your expertise and you have written intensively extensively about it, like in a book or you've studied it or you've experienced from it, that is uniqueness.

Jeff Bullas

00:14:28 - 00:14:37

So talk, so you're unique, you're creating a podcast. How do you actually amplify yourself through social media?

Josef Schinwald

00:14:38 - 00:14:59

Well, that is um you, I would always suggest doing both. I mean, you know, people say, should I have a podcast or should I go as a guest expert and leverage other people's audiences on the podcast as a guest. Why not do both? Because when you are, when you are, let's say attractive to podcast hosts in your niche,

Josef Schinwald

00:14:59 - 00:15:43

very relevant and you send them a picture, you work through a podcast agency like I do like I have, then you will be accepted like three times. You, you want to make sure it's not too often like three times a month. A podcast is great. If you get a 1% global rank on a podcast, it's uh it's about 5000 people who will listen to you. That's uh average, just statistics. So you get like 20,000, maybe a month in a year. We're talking about over 200,000 people and sometimes a billion. Because you also get, if you're really good, 0.01% then you have 100,000 people already, right? But you want to make sure that you don't go to average podcast necessarily because it's sometimes a roll of th and you don't even know whether somebody listens to you

Josef Schinwald

00:15:44 - 00:16:40

unless it's really so relevant. You know, because you also want to maybe network and that's the thing, the podcasting when you're a podcast guest and you know how to, how to do it. Well, you will fantastically, network networking opportunities are everywhere when you are on podcasts, right? Networking, but not only this, you also reach a wider audience, right? But all of this is basically the advantage and there are many more, but I I don't want to talk about it because there, you know, it um it's like obvious that through this medium, that one marketing channel called broadcasting, which is quite unique itself, it connects everybody the whole world globally, that you have a another opportunity next to your blog, next to your Facebook, advertising world, linkedin engagements, whatever you have another opportunity and you should absolutely use it. You should do the podcast casting

Josef Schinwald

00:16:41 - 00:17:15

and you should do the podcasting itself and you are planning to build your plan because through the podcast casting, you get a great network of experts to your podcast. Also in the pitch, you can say you're happy to do the exchange and to invite that person also on your podcast because it's already an effect because it's the same niche, it's the same industry, but I would not neglect and people only sometimes do, only podcasting. I wouldn't do that only because you get such a leverage from being on other people's podcasts, from their audiences. And the networking. I, I, that's what I wanted to say.

Jeff Bullas

00:17:15 - 00:17:21

So, one of the major superpowers of podcasting is networking. Is that what you're saying?

Josef Schinwald

00:17:21 - 00:17:57

Yeah, it's a new network. It's a new network and uh I experienced it myself because I have the agency. But I also do what I preach. So I like to go and podcast and I get now I, you know, I have to cut it down almost. I get a lot of opportunities because people refer to me and um it's not that pitching is very easy nowadays because I, I fine tuned it and I made it better. And so, but I'm very happy each time that a month goes by, I wasn't free for a podcast. I could go more but in a year it just adds up, you know, like four podcasts, uh times 12. Yeah, it's almost, it's almost 50.

Jeff Bullas

00:17:58 - 00:18:07

Yeah. So that's really interesting. I just love having a conversation with fascinating people and you just don't know where it's gonna go. Do you?

Josef Schinwald

00:18:08 - 00:18:11

That's right. I mean, the conversation itself, it's very fulfilling.

Jeff Bullas

00:18:12 - 00:18:17

Yeah, it's very fulfilling. So, where's the future of podcasting for you?

Josef Schinwald

00:18:18 - 00:19:13

What the stats, uh, you know, I, I mean, I see successful broadcasters like you and of course, I have lots in my network because I have these guest experts on air booking agencies. I can clearly see the future. Now look at the statistics. Now we have about, we have exactly around around 505 million listeners in 2004 since Jan, that's from Jan, 2005, uh 2024. Sorry, we have 5,000,005 0.5 million listens, but that's not the most extraordinary thing. And people say how many podcasts that don't even even count either because you have like the statistics, say according to podcast index that we have 4.5 million podcasts worldwide. But, you know, in my experience and also from other statistics, I know that only 400,000 of those millions are actually interview based

Josef Schinwald

00:19:13 - 00:20:05

and from there only 40,000 are really active. And then you think about all the people who do the Comedy and the True Crime podcast. Well, we stand where, where's the podcast, the business podcast. So for an individual, an expert, like in his niche that he has probably, I would say 500 podcasts he can be on, it's a lot, but it's not like millions, right? So you have to be, you know, you don't get second chances. Sometimes you have to be from the very beginning. Very strategic. So where does it go? The last uh the last statistics I wanna tell you, I wanna say here in, in uh for your audience is fascinating. It's fascinating. It's like the compound growth rate of the podcast market itself. The market when it comes to 2030 will reach 2030. The market of podcast podcasting

Josef Schinwald

00:20:05 - 00:20:29

will be 100 $30 billion because from now on every year it compounds go rate 27% statistically. So this is amazing. I mean, you think all about those, those broadcasters who right now go in there the next seven years, you know, you, you might, the possibilities are incredible to actually make money business.

Jeff Bullas

00:20:31 - 00:20:34

So what do you love most about podcasting?

Josef Schinwald

00:20:37 - 00:21:09

It's uh you know what I, what we all didn't know before broadcasting, we all didn't know how many experts are really out there. It just, for me, it's just amazing and fascinating to realize how talented so many people are and how, how deep and how advanced, you know, I have sometimes uh people on my podcast, uh they are 25 years and I said, well, it took me all my, all my life to get this kind of insights. They have them already. So you get surprised, right? It's not always Oprah,

Josef Schinwald

00:21:10 - 00:21:31

it's not always that, that vertical thing where it's like the huge uh entry level and barrier to entry. Now also, you know, you get a little, you get a microphone as a, as a plant, as a, as a, as a, as a social, as a, as a solo, you get a microphone, you can suddenly talk. If you do decide, you can talk every week or so to your wider audience that fascinates me.

Jeff Bullas

00:21:32 - 00:21:39

Yeah. So it sounds like you just love having conversation with interesting people. Is that correct?

Josef Schinwald

00:21:40 - 00:22:02

Yes, look, uh Jeff, I live also in a small village in Majorca Mountain village and there are all kinds of fascinating people. Like they come from Majorca, an island in Spain. So they come from Germany, they come from Sweden, they come from, I'm from Austria, uh England. And these are all great conversations we have here. And after COVID, it is fantastic. But additionally,

Josef Schinwald

00:22:03 - 00:22:46

I have these clients and uh you know, with whom I can uh be together from time to time and have interviews where I get to know new people like you yourself. That is for me what? Very, very, very fascinating because I don't live in a memo politan city anymore. Like I did, I lived in New York for a long time where I started. I lived on point. But now I'm just in a small, small village where the whole thing is 700 people. But I can tell you it's so fulfilling for so many people. Interesting, most uh uh extraordinary people I meet every week. You know, I need that small village because I said, OK, you know, as the beach here and it's all natural. So I go a lot of hiking and all this, but I would probably be bored. OK.

Jeff Bullas

00:22:48 - 00:22:56

So you mentioned there's a spiritual aspect to life that, uh, ends up with talking to people. Tell me more about that.

Josef Schinwald

00:22:58 - 00:23:28

Well, we have to be, you know, I, I'm very grateful for language because, you know, if we wouldn't know the language and we get everything from others, it's just amazing. We are kind of like in the Buddhist tradition that we are kind of nothing and everything. But because of language, we can actually communicate, you can chat with others And you know, that is actually one of the wonderful things in life. So otherwise you could only be always by yourself in that way. And that, you know, the spiritual aspect is

Josef Schinwald

00:23:29 - 00:24:09

to recognize that we are just one of many, we are me and me and everybody is in me. I actually want one. I had a spiritual experience about it. I was coming back from Latin America. I traveled with two high school friends for one year. So I was only 21. It was 1982 and I relaxed in my garden. I read some stuff like, you know, whatever you write, you read like spiritual wisdom, tradition stuff. And suddenly I go to bed and I go out in this universe and I see people like me and we, we wanted to, we, we we, we looked at each other and we all realized that we are all just me, everybody is just me and that is the beautiful thing. That's the universe, right?

Josef Schinwald

00:24:10 - 00:24:35

And uh that's spirituality. And so just talking with people broadcasting, all this is, is a very enriching experience in life. Getting to know, recognizing that people are, have had traumas just like you, they had uh they have studied just like you, they have ambitions just like you. It's, it's, we are not very different but we are very unique, you know, but in a sense that is enriching for me at least.

Jeff Bullas

00:24:36 - 00:24:46

Yeah. So you're fascinated by actually having conversations with people that you get to the core of what it means to be human. Is that right?

Josef Schinwald

00:24:46 - 00:25:09

Yes. Yes. What it means to be human really, I think is that consciousness that we are human because when you look in the other dark side of the history, right? You see many times the worst things happened in this world when people lost that consciousness of who they are, like just an artist, you know, who wants to be an artist, they had to have human beings. I mean,

Josef Schinwald

00:25:09 - 00:25:47

but they lost it, they forgot who they actually are, you know, and there are still people like this. I mean, we had all these channel sites in the world and that's the thing, you know, where, where I, I feel like it all comes from, the heart comes from us. You don't even need to believe in a God if you don't want to. It's, like in the orient, you know, there's a different conception of spirituality than in the two of Christian Islamic traditions where you need the Messiah, but you have to have them because you have the original signals. If you believe that perfectly fine, I love everything. I just don't believe it, right? What I believe is uh you know, it, it can change. I'm very flexible. I like to,

Josef Schinwald

00:25:48 - 00:26:33

to just be inspired and, and I like wisdom tradition, like wisdom and spirituality. For me, Jeff, it's like mindfulness, right? Mindfulness. You can be mindful about eating, dancing, and all kinds of things. Mindfulness is very popular nowadays even with business leaders. But when I walk in nature, like its beautiful major city, even in winter time everything is clean, fantastic oranges, everything I could be mindful of like my steps and I should be and I am, you know, I don't want to fall down. But ultimate mindfulness for me just reflects who you are, who is being mine, who is that who is mindful? Who am I? That's mindfulness for me. Spirituality. Same thing has nothing to do with religion. Spirituality for me, it is more like

Josef Schinwald

00:26:37 - 00:27:03

that I feel it's, it's a, it's a, it's the essence of the universe and everybody is this, they call it in India dot Pharma dot Pharmacy actually is you it but be a kind of, and we live our lives. We kind of play as if we are somebody else . That is the whole idea about this dream in life that we pretend to be somebody else. But actually we are.

Jeff Bullas

00:27:04 - 00:27:37

Yeah. Well, that's the thing. It's like we have this thing that happens. Like when I grow up, it would be like, you know, Steve Jobs and when I grow up, I wanna be like, um do gates. So let me ask you a question: what are you curious about? Most curious about? And there might be several things because we're all curious. Well, as humans, we can be very curious. What are you, what are you curious about?

Josef Schinwald

00:27:39 - 00:28:07

My curiosity was all, all, all my life actually very early. In my childhood, I would say seven or eight o'clock when I stayed outside with some friends. We were basically, I had a little house in the garden. My, you know, my father had one also so we could invite friends and stay there all night. It was like seven or eight years and we talked about the universe and it was always that Greek we had in question with me. Uh Who am I? Yeah, who am I? That's curiosity because,

Josef Schinwald

00:28:07 - 00:28:33

you know, it seems like this is, this is uh why we are here on why we are living. I mean, I, I just wonder sometimes Jeff, how can people be so focused on objective things, on objective knowledge and all this? And they don't know the subjectivity of themselves. I mean, it's nice to know all these things but clearly when you die, you know, nothing. And when you, when you are born, you know, nothing. The only thing we know is

Josef Schinwald

00:28:34 - 00:29:02

it's me, you know, we can only go inside that light in the darkness. And that's very comforting. But then all this stuff we think we know and you know, it's just a dream. I think it's just a very important and fantastic dream. I'm curious, curious about more, more experiences. I love experiences. I was recently asked by Joseph, you should write a book. I said, no, I don't waste my time on a book. I like new experiences. As long as I live. It's fascinating experiences is fascinating, right?

Jeff Bullas

00:29:02 - 00:29:18

So curiosity is one thing. In other words, you can be curious about many things, right? And I am very curious about many things. So I started my blog in 2009 because curious about the impact of social media and that curiosity was I suppose it was enabled because we got a lot of traffic attention. On the other hand, beyond curiosity, what is the drive that compels you? I'm fascinated by that. So compelling is actually like what drives Joseph?

Josef Schinwald

00:29:52 - 00:30:40

It's, it's really that uh whole existence. I'm not very much into objectifying things. I like to come to subjectivity. It means what is consciousness? You know, what is awareness? What is, where does it lead me? What is this all about? The curiosity is more like about life in general and, and metaphysical stuff as well. So I'm, I'm, I'm constantly going into things. I studied five years in New York when I did my masters. It's, uh and I think about these things often, it's like Zen Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism is just that really fulfills me the most. And that's what I'm most curious about and uh just to get insights every day, something, you know, I like that. So I, I live my life, of course, we have to do our business

Josef Schinwald

00:30:41 - 00:31:13

and I'm also very curious about A I, the way this turns out and uh how we get uh how we can control it actually because it's so fascinating and I want to have it in marketing and all this. So how, how, how will it be next year now I can make it now already, I can make it, I can upload a video for me. It comes up in, hatching, right? Uh with my voice and everything, then I can go to church DP and I can say uh I write me um I get a really interesting article with everything, statistics, everything about a certain subject

Josef Schinwald

00:31:13 - 00:31:31

where I want to be taught later. And I can say what are the 20 best copywriters in the world? Rewrite it, act as a copywriter, whatever, make sure it goes to originality dot A I. So it's no blogger. Now A I is detected, upload it as a script and suddenly I'm on the video talking about it. It's me.

Josef Schinwald

00:31:32 - 00:32:00

Right. And that I can do already now, but you can use these things really bad in a bad way. But, you know, if you use it in a good way, I, it's fascinating to me because you get like, you know, you, what is it? I mean, you have to have a way if you want to make money in the future, you have to have to, you know, it's always the same. I mean, you have to use it for this kind of thing. And the more often you can say buy for me on the internet. But because physically, you can't say too often, you know,

Josef Schinwald

00:32:00 - 00:32:18

but like in advertising, you know, the more often you can say bye from it, the more money you will make. And that's also important because it gives your ego a little bit of a boost and you can live a comfortable life and you can uh do great things for the world also because you don't wanna do anything which is not useful.

Jeff Bullas

00:32:19 - 00:32:23

So, podcasting an A I

Jeff Bullas

00:32:26 - 00:32:33

a very interesting area. Um How do you think A I is gonna impact podcasting in the future?

Josef Schinwald

00:32:34 - 00:33:15

Yes. Yeah. First of all, I think we have to use it to differentiate ourselves to be even more human than before, more natural, more human. And when we use it, we can really admit it, you know, I was chatting with Cha G DB and I got this extra information. The statistics, whatever. Uh It's also not just chat G DB, it's perplexing. It is a very good perplexity dot A I, you can ask that it's the replacement Google will be gone. So, I mean, it seems like it, you know, Google is like, who wants to have just links when you ask some questions, you want the answers. And uh so the broadcasting, you know, when I look at the really great shows,

Josef Schinwald

00:33:16 - 00:33:57

They are turning out one episode after the other and sometimes in order to get a second episode out in the week that gives them a huge boost in popularity in global rank, listen score. And so you can use it a lot for preparing yourself for the podcast for the expert. You can research it, but you can also do solo shows based on your expertise, right? Very well because this is a I, you just have to be honest about it, you know, but people will, will get used to it because you have to have quite an intelligence to use it. Well, it is terrible. Uh sometimes you have to fact check because it's, it's sometimes at least to some stupid thing, you know. Yeah, you have to check

Jeff Bullas

00:33:59 - 00:34:06

that the future. So you can ask the question. And the term used is hallucination, isn't it?

Josef Schinwald

00:34:07 - 00:34:08

I do one.

Jeff Bullas

00:34:08 - 00:34:15

The term actually when you ask chat G BT is that it hallucinates.

Josef Schinwald

00:34:16 - 00:34:58

Absolutely. You know, it does and you can't argue with it. It's, you know, it will tell you later it will say chat GDP is now close to another two hours. You can't use it anymore. No, you can't, you know, check it before it. But you know, it's like, like everything else. I mean, people have been talking a lot about Google Seo and all these things become very, people become very talkative about it when it's really going on. Uh But you have to just be able to go your mind, your brain with it and use it because you are the subject of it. As I said, this guy today uh I listened to his interview and it was a gene page J interviewing. There was a secret, it was a community stuff. You had to be logged in

Josef Schinwald

00:34:58 - 00:35:35

this uh this, this Walter or p and he, he said it right in the future. He actually said, and I believe it almost, it's not that the hitch people become hitch. That was already the crossing point. I mean, the, the, the, the, the blue collar workers, they went down and the middle class and the richer, the richer people become rich again with artificial intelligence. It says as well. And there will be people who will tell the robots what to do and most of the people will, they will be told by the robots. You see. Yeah, that, that's, that's the scariest thing about it. You don't want to be in that group.

Jeff Bullas

00:35:37 - 00:35:42

So how did you get into podcasting?

Josef Schinwald

00:35:45 - 00:36:31

Yeah, because II I, you know, when I, I was actually, you know, uh actually in this 50 television shows and I love interviews and being interviewed. And then I said this is, I love also to be talking about intelligent communications with extraordinary people. So that's how I got into it because I either attracted a few clients that did it on the sides and then more and more and more. And now I've had some 15 clients, which is good in the broadcasting group in the broadcasting guesting group because they stayed a whole year. They stay another year, they renew the packages like I sell 10 packages and then after that 10 interviews are done, I get another renewal and the renewal and they happen and I make, I make good money. But you know, it's like

Josef Schinwald

00:36:32 - 00:36:35

um it's a nice chopper. I like it. OK.

Jeff Bullas

00:36:36 - 00:36:43

So let me tell me more how you actually make money out of podcasting. Then you just mentioned a little bit about

Josef Schinwald

00:36:43 - 00:37:21

it. So there is, first of all, I, if I get a prospect on the Zoom meeting, we are talking right away about the, the my valuable position is um elite podcast, elite pod. I get the elite podcast like 5000, 10,000 interviews per podcast interview. And, we talk about the marketing objectives of the uh client. We talked about studying them really well and researching before they came. And then they, what they want to accomplish with the podcast testing too. And uh it's always the same. I mean, the thought leaders, they have written a book, um some,

Josef Schinwald

00:37:21 - 00:37:59

some uh charismatic leaders, they, they do the retreats and they have like already lots of people but they want to get more and you have to always continuously be visible out there. So, basically everybody has their own objective. But that's important, what kind of audience do they want to reach? That's super important because that determines afterwards what kind of experts, similar experts, I'll identify with my research. So I can look at what kind of podcast they have been. Yeah, because I want to shorten this, I don't want to go to a podcast. They don't even do interviews or you know what they are like in house, like

Josef Schinwald

00:37:59 - 00:38:28

big consulting companies. They only want to interview their own clients. I wanna get on the podcast right away through a shortcut when I research by identifying 20 experts similar to my clients. And then I look at the experts similar to my client on which podcast they have been on. Then I can research, I get my podcast tracker sheet full with 20 podcasts. I have written a whole day. I worked on that pitch. I work with software. I follow up multi-channels, follow up, and email. Of course, email is the best year.

Josef Schinwald

00:38:28 - 00:39:06

But linkedin is also very good to have on the site because you have to transmit a certain amount of information about your client, which means the bio, what topics you can talk about? You have to have links to your book or her book and to social media and all this. So, uh and it's very common that uh B to B email is open. I have like an 87% open rate on my email campaigns. Wow. Ok. Well, it's podcast hosts. So they need it because, you know, if they don't have new clients, new guests, they have no, uh, uh, they don't have any content for the podcast.

Jeff Bullas

00:39:06 - 00:39:18

Ok. So I'm gonna be a little bit ego driven here. So how come you approach me to be on my podcast? I'll be curious about that.

Josef Schinwald

00:39:18 - 00:39:57

Yes. Well, I have a client. His name is Rocky Buckley. He has the power persona project on Facebook. Uh, he's like, you know, coaches and, and, and people and I pitched him to you. That was a long time ago. I think it was maybe a year ago. And he talked very well about you. So he said that was great. And then I saw you also in his group, in the Facebook group, there are thousands of consultants and coaches. And I said, well, you know, II I felt already got more interested and you, and then I said, you know, I'm also into marketing because I, I don't see myself so much like a podcast guy

Josef Schinwald

00:39:57 - 00:40:35

running around, you know, on the, on the big uh conferences and, and having the book, et cetera. I feel much more um too, to do outside things. Like I could talk about broadcasting accountants. I like from the outside in, right. I like it when I'm in the marketing realm, that's where I am. Internet marketing. So, uh then I said, you know, I could also pitch myself to chef because uh I saw, I saw your, your, your great attitude with Rocky Buckley was a friend of mine. He's actually a consultant. We meet once a month and that's how I approached you.

Jeff Bullas

00:40:35 - 00:40:53

Right? Yeah, I just love having conversations with interesting people and um that's what I'm really enjoying right here right now and you come at it from a very organic natural space which I love.

Josef Schinwald

00:40:53 - 00:40:58

Mhm Thank you very much. She is very, very kind to us. Thank you.

Jeff Bullas

00:40:59 - 00:41:00

Jeff Bullas

00:41:03 - 00:41:09

in terms of how do you monetize podcasts from your perspective

Josef Schinwald

00:41:09 - 00:41:46

as it was? Mhm Yes. Well, broadcast booking as an agency is a, is a marketing agency, basically public agency, public relation agency, uh visibility agency. So you help people who need traffic. So exactly, you either have paid, you have to go, I mean, you need traffic if you have a business so you can do paid traffic or you get organic traffic. But that also is a lot of work like thinking about search engine optimization, writing blog posts, and content marketing. It's also good, right? You have to pay somebody but you can also do the advertising but you always need paid, you need all this traffic.

Josef Schinwald

00:41:46 - 00:42:23

So with the broadcasting world, obviously, it is different because you get 45% 5 to 45 minutes to talk about your plans. So your plan is when people are in the room and you're not there, what are they talking about you? Right. That's your brand. And when you get the chance to talk for 40 minutes about your expertise, your compelling people hear your compelling story and they get to know the links to your book and to your apps and all this. And if they're really interested in coming into your ecosystem of profitability, they pay for it. So I have this agency where um I do like three

Josef Schinwald

00:42:23 - 00:42:47

introducing the experience package because I like the people because I, I, you know, I also asked about GDP. I analyzed all my competitors and it said something about me. What differentiates me is that I'm transparent and I liked it. I'm, they are not transparent. They are behind the ball many times and they say, OK, you answer $2000 put send me $2000 then we start and the person doesn't even know you know

Josef Schinwald

00:42:47 - 00:43:37

much and I want to be transparent. So I wanna have that person with that prospect. Know that I really work on this positioning. I am qualified to do that. I, he will see the 21st podcast. I will pitch, I will be pitching to, he will see the pitch itself, the positioning and he can actually sometimes they don't want to interfere, but sometimes they do. I love it so we can actually work on this together and then I want them to have an experience. So I gave them three interviews. I say interview package, experience package for 699 $699. And I give another extra bonus. So they actually get four interviews for only $700. That's a potential of 20,000 people if they are a great uh uh class. And then I hope hopefully they turn into buying over 10

Josef Schinwald

00:43:38 - 00:44:22

interviews. That's $2100. So they get 10 interviews, $2100 another 10 $2100. And that's what I go for. And that is what I earn with that. And I do sometimes get jealousy from certain broadcast uh uh uh uh hosts. Unfortunately, there, you know, some people know how to make money with it. They use it for their own brand, for their own business, for networking, but sometimes they have no idea how to make money with it and they think I'm working so hard on this, I format it. And I, you know, I get to know a lot of bookers so straight and then they do some crazy stuff, you know, uh um, like chasing my own clients. They want to do the same business. I do. They say no Joseph is bad. Do it with me, you know, or they say,

Josef Schinwald

00:44:23 - 00:45:11

uh, you know, we have all this work. There's a waiting list that's typical on the waiting list. I, this is not the case. I like it. And I say, I mean that they're looking for profit models, right? There's a waiting list. It's a high level podcast and I will be your guest, but it might be next year, right? You can use the book calendar for February 2025 or for $1000. It can be next week on the show. Some people do that, you know, so they're looking, they're looking at creative innovative ways to make money. It's not just the advertising, but as I said, this kind of money making thing with podcasts is growing now at a 27% compound rate and it's going to be uh $130 billion in, in, in 2030. So the people are

Josef Schinwald

00:45:11 - 00:45:45

para times, right? Did they try around New Para Times? Because you can make money with it? Of course, you can, but most podcast hosts don't, but the podcast booking agencies if you do it right? I mean, you know, if you differentiate yourself, you can make some money, but you know, it's like we, we also grow. So, uh, yeah, and there are putting agencies out there that have 30 employees and they make $5 million revenues a year. I don't, I, I don't, I don't have so many people. I don't want to die. It's more like a lifestyle business.

Jeff Bullas

00:45:46 - 00:45:51

Yes. Exactly. So, you're actually, um, you're doing what you love and get paid for it.

Josef Schinwald

00:45:52 - 00:45:59

That's right. And it's a fantastic thing. I really wouldn't want to do anything else. I love it.

Jeff Bullas

00:45:59 - 00:46:13

So let, just to wrap this up, Joseph, what brings you real deep joy? In other words, what would you do? Even if you weren't paid for it,

Josef Schinwald

00:46:17 - 00:46:58

even if I will pay for it. But I still like to travel the world. I was in so many, so many countries uh in my life and I like the beautiful places, the beaches and mountain villages and all this. And I like great restaurants and meeting people and that's adventurous, really adventurous. So if somebody wants to pay me for this, that's great. But I do it also if nobody pays me for it. So I'm planning another trip to Central America um probably in two months. And I know a lot of people there like uh Honduras, I will establish the newspaper in three years. Nicaragua. Costa Rica is a wonderful, beautiful place to be.

Josef Schinwald

00:46:59 - 00:47:40

And yeah, this kind of thing I like a lot and, and while I'm actually working, I have no problem. I get a really nice apartment there on the beach, a swimming pool and all this and I have fun at night. I go out and all this but I have, I like to have something to do, you know, because life is that kind of balancing. I tried it when I had this Ecommerce store and I made $400,000 and everything was outsourced because I had everything. I had somebody to work for me in my company and I was just with my laptop, like all these years in Central America. But believe it or not, it was not, it was not fulfilling to do nothing for a while. And for a few years, I did nothing.

Jeff Bullas

00:47:41 - 00:47:49

So what you're saying is you actually enjoy the interaction and community of people that you actually have the conversations with. Is that correct?

Josef Schinwald

00:47:49 - 00:48:18

Yes. And I also enjoy my processes. For instance, you know, it's always a challenge. Like now you learn about A I and you incorporate it in your business and you prepare yourself for the future and every day be engaged in this, every day gives you a balance in life. If you have like, I, you know, if you're just like having nothing to do at all, what you will do sooner or later, you will have a challenge to not, not let yourself go. Yeah. When they get older.

Josef Schinwald

00:48:19 - 00:48:45

You know, you, you will, you will just really, every day, uh, pain wash yourself with. Oh, I live the best life ever drinking another beer. Uh, you know, I couldn't have it better. I found out that, uh, work is fun. It's nice. I like it. Not too much. I mean, you know, sometimes I get eight hours but sometimes six, sometimes I can take a few days off, sometimes free, but I'm free. But I like it. It's very important.

Jeff Bullas

00:48:47 - 00:49:00

In other words, you have, you're doing what you love without being manic in terms of productivity. Is that right? Sometimes it's

Josef Schinwald

00:49:00 - 00:49:25

still because my business is five years old. It's with the new, with the A I, I thought it helps me a lot, like getting more productive but I got more clients. I got more productive. Yes. But I also have more work. Now, um I would say it's a challenge for everybody to enjoy your life. And, uh, you know, that's what I learned a lot also with the people here, the ones who are wealthy and have a house here and,

Josef Schinwald

00:49:25 - 00:50:00

You know, um it's always a challenge. I mean, even they sometimes think too much and stuff like this, you know, you have this, they sold their business for like hundreds of millions. Really? There is one and ultimately, you know, and they get drunk at night, what else to do? It isn't the best wine Paul costs 200 bucks, it's the best food every night, you know, and it's also, you know, buy another house and another house and another house. So we all have to challenge ourselves, right? I mean, we have to challenge ourselves to live a life that fulfills us.

Josef Schinwald

00:50:00 - 00:50:37

And that means in my world, the definition is when you go into yourself and you find your true aspirations, sometimes that only goes hand in hand with meditation. Really? So you meditate, you, you really recognize again what is important to me. What do I want to experience in life? And then you have the self-discipline, you work on it, do it, you always go from A to B but if you are empty, you don't know anymore what you want and you are, you've sold your business and now what, it was fun. I was growing, I was growing my business and now I think I have the money.

Josef Schinwald

00:50:38 - 00:51:05

So you still need to always meditate on what is important in your life. And that only can that, that only can fulfill you as soon as you do something which is not from you, which are not your aspirations. You know what happens according to Buddhism? Actually, there you will. The Buddhist said that also you, you will always be thirsty because she's doing the wrong thing you're doing what your mother told you. You know, you didn't want to become that. But now you are because your father told you you should be that and then you become that.

Josef Schinwald

00:51:06 - 00:51:37

Now you are not fulfilled because you don't do what you're, what you're born for. Your real aspirations. So now you want to find satisfaction and fulfillment and you think if I do more of it, I will be fulfilled and you do more and worth it and you get even worse. So it's, I think it's a challenge, you know, always, how can I really enjoy my life? Because tomorrow we don't know, you know, so many things happen to us, to other people, the more they are sick, the more they are dead. Um The more they do anything can always happen today is today right now.

Jeff Bullas

00:51:37 - 00:51:45

Yeah. So what you're saying is um when I grow up, I want to be me, not someone else

Josef Schinwald

00:51:47 - 00:51:50

I want to. Yes, that's what I'm saying. And I say I wanna be me

Josef Schinwald

00:51:52 - 00:52:38

doing exactly what I want to do as me, as me, my claim. What is my claim? You know, it's my claim and that's my life and you, you will be fulfilled that way. If you do, you still have to be very mindfully disciplined. Self-discipline is important because nothing comes for free. You want to, to use this inspiration, aspirations. That's what you want to experience. It comes with self-discipline and also with memory all the time that you are always great minded, mindfully. What do I want every day? Because you can, you know, the biggest problem in this world is distraction so that people talk about the journey, the Joseph Camper, the hero's journey. What is the hero's journey now? It is in our life.

Josef Schinwald

00:52:39 - 00:53:01

It's like the holy grail is where you live in the now in the eternal now. And everything else is a distraction. You know, and that's what we all struggle with. We're getting distracted from what we really want in our whole life and then we are not fulfilled and then we want more of the bad things, the things which haven't made us happy in the first place. Yeah, we think if you get more of it, we will be happy, but that's never happened.

Jeff Bullas

00:53:02 - 00:53:17

Yeah, I love Joseph Campbell's statement about what it really means to be in the space that I think everyone, every one of us wants to be says, follow your bliss

Josef Schinwald

00:53:17 - 00:53:18

or just,

Jeff Bullas

00:53:20 - 00:53:50

and, and that is where, and that's why I ask you questions about. What are you curious about? The other thing that I really wanna know is what is, what compels you. That's really what fascinates me as well. In other words, what shows up every day for me, I, I'm actually my new mission is what's the intersection of humanity and A I? Because A I is gonna transform what we are as humans.

Josef Schinwald

00:53:51 - 00:53:52

Josef Schinwald

00:53:55 - 00:54:30

Yes. Uh Yeah. For me, it has a lot to do with these things also, I have to say, but also a lot has to do with uh this uh self knowledge and you can never know yourself completely because you might, you are just the whole universe. Everybody is. So how do you know the whole universe? But that's curiosity, that is I'm curious about it. And then there is what I really want in life that belongs to me also. That's my thing. So I see uh Jeff like, you know, you can think of if you would be God and you had like

Josef Schinwald

00:54:31 - 00:55:11

hundreds of claims. Each one was controlled, you controlled you, you experienced everything because you could claim 70 years in one hour, you tramped it. It's a nice story actually for Ellen Watts, but it's good and you tramped it and all this. But what I really realized, you know, even for God, you might have said one day. No, I want, I want some uncontrolled time just I don't, I don't want, I don't want to control this all the time, you know, and I think that's who we are now. You know, we are like we are living this uncontrolled pain, but it is still your team and, and you are, you know, anything can happen to you tomorrow and you, you know, you came to this world now we have a I coming up and uh before it was something else.

Josef Schinwald

00:55:11 - 00:55:47

But if you can live with it, you know, and uh in the now and you can enjoy it that you don't know everything and you don't have control over things because that makes it actually interesting. You have control. You know, that's what I see. That's my philosophy also in a way and that's very much in relationship with the God I had in India. Uh that idea of God ha. And I don't subscribe to any, I don't believe anything but I am almost inspired by those kinds of things. That's my curiosity in life and that's my place actually also. And Cho Camp, I was very much into this also Hindus and Buddhism and stuff like this.

Jeff Bullas

00:55:48 - 00:56:14

So let's do a little bit of a chat about Joseph Campbell. Um, I'm a fanboy of Joseph Campbell. I think the hero's journey where you step from the ordinary into the extraordinary, what's your call? So what's your call? In other words if you had the call?

Jeff Bullas

00:56:16 - 00:56:28

And on top of that then you've had the call. So what is it called for you? What's your journey where you're gonna learn and then bring a message back to the world? What's that for you?

Josef Schinwald

00:56:29 - 00:56:45

Excellent question. You see, the Joseph comp, who is just that? You realize when you hear, hear about the first time, right? You realize, wow, you know, there's actually a PT, there's actually a p for everybody, right? For everybody. It's not the same. And I,

Jeff Bullas

00:56:45 - 00:56:49

but, but it's, but it's your blueprint, not anyone else.

Josef Schinwald

00:56:49 - 00:57:14

It's just, it's just like, it's good to know that there is a blueprint, there is a story and that's what happened. It's a recurring, recurring uh thing. And like, and there is in the, in the, in the Zen Buddhist tradition, the Chinese Taoist tradition, there is the Zen Oxford pictures stories, the same thing. It's in every culture, this kind of blueprint print of the hero's journey is in every culture.

Josef Schinwald

00:57:14 - 00:57:53

And so that's where he has it from, right? But I like it very much from the Zen serving pictures. There's 10 pictures and the first picture is like a book, a young person is around a circle that's actually in the temples still in, in certain places. And Buddhism and I wrote my thesis on it when I studied in New York. And it frustrated me. It's just like the huge c and that's where I come to answer your question. So there's this, there's someone who looks, looks on his search. That's the beginning of spirituality. What is his church? He doesn't know, but he's something, you know, and then there's a bully. This is a bully,

Josef Schinwald

00:57:54 - 00:58:37

uh uh ox, an ox. That's why it's called the 10 ox herding pictures. So he sees an ox and he wants to catch it, but it escapes all the time. So now finally there's another picture and another picture, another picture, he hides the ox, he tames it, he sits down, he forgets the ox. That's his wild nature. His animal nature. Basically, he forgets it, he forgets even himself and there's an empty circle and then there's the box up at the end where the bodies are up like, heavy like me, you know, my belly and everything. He shows the young guy who was in the first picture. Just another way to become enlightened. And for me, that is the hero's journey. I mean, I like very much that idea to

Josef Schinwald

00:58:38 - 00:59:21

expand my consciousness. That's my purpose in life. So when, when I expand my consciousness, so my life, so my adventures because I many times like the hero's journey, you go like Joseph Camper says, you don't go into the forest where everybody goes in, that's not interesting to the guy who is on the hero's journey. No, you find a place in the wild forest. We, there's nobody, there's nobody going, but it's better practice. So you go all along and, and the adventure starts. So that is for me, an adventure and another adventure. But why, why all these adventures? Because we won't? That's us. We are kind of uh you know, we want to expand our consciousness.

Jeff Bullas

00:59:22 - 00:59:27

Yeah. So that's what's really great about um

Jeff Bullas

00:59:30 - 01:00:07

The hero's journey is that you actually step into a path no-one's ever trodden before. That's your journey. And actually, I think that's really good for people to go. And if you follow someone else's path, that's their path. It's not yours. So the knights of the round table, for example, they went into the forest where there was no path. And that's the only way to discover your path is to actually step into the unknown without it being written for you.

Josef Schinwald

01:00:08 - 01:00:39

Absolutely. Hm. Yeah, I had these experiences, you know, I mean, I was coming back from India from, uh, from South America, but I traveled with two friends. I was only 20. Then I, then, then I came to, went to India for two years and I was, I was actually having quite some adventures there. I wasn't, there was no tourist where I was, I mean, there was, there was tourism but, uh, I was on my own path. I know these kinds of things and it can throw you out of, of, out of, or when I come back to Australia.

Josef Schinwald

01:00:40 - 01:01:26

You know, it can throw you out of, of, of the normal and, uh, and the comfort zone completely, which is not advisable. But then I used this and I studied all this, um, scriptures and world religions without being part of any religion for five years for a master's degree in New York. So, you know, you never know, uh, how things in a p room help you in your life want something very bad. Has this incredible effect on your life that you say I would have never done this if that would not have happened to me. It's a pendulum, the whole thing. And I, that's where I love the story from a Chinese farmer. And you know, Paul, where the horse ran away and it teaches equanimity basically, that's what we have to live from life.

Josef Schinwald

01:01:27 - 01:01:57

Um The horse comes away. So all the neighbors come, you poor fellow neighbor. We feel sorry for you. He said, maybe and then the horse comes back with the wild horse the next day. And so all the neighbors come again and say, well, you're so lucky. I mean, you're so lucky, happy. You know, uh we congratulate you. See, he says maybe so his son comes and he rides off with a, what was it? And so tame it and fall off those breaks like terrible. So he comes back and it's like it's over in a second and all the neighbors come again and say

Josef Schinwald

01:01:58 - 01:02:23

a poor fellow. Uh you have this tragedy again and he said maybe and then it goes on for a long time. But it's already enough. When I say now the last thing which is the army comes the army in China. No, and recruits the young man. Of course, the son is not going to be recruited because he broke his leg. He is in bed. So that is life. We don't know, basically, what one thing in our life right now is. What that actually means is in the future.

Jeff Bullas

01:02:24 - 01:02:30

Yep. I don't wanna know what the future is because I love the adventure of the unknown.

Josef Schinwald

01:02:31 - 01:03:14

That's why it is the future. Yeah. If you want to know the future, you will become paranoid, and panic. You will have panic, you will have Boris, you know, and if you want to have uh knowledge and know, know, knowing, knowing the knowing because it's, it comes in the toilet of knowing and unknowing. If you want to have the knowledge then go to the past. But it's terribly boring. You know, all the past, you know, it, you know everything there, it's over, it's knowledge, it's known the future is the opposite. So if it's uncertain and uncertain and you like it and you can say, ok, um, it's a free fall, I cannot hold on to anything. But that is I'm really alive. I really like then

Josef Schinwald

01:03:15 - 01:03:24

That's a good thing. You will have a very good life. Basically. You have to accept, I think. Yeah. And you do. It's good.

Jeff Bullas

01:03:24 - 01:03:35

Yeah. And I totally agree with you. I love stepping into the unknown and seeing what actually turns up and then life becomes its exciting adventure.

Josef Schinwald

01:03:36 - 01:04:09

Yes. And as soon as you do it, like you do it and I'm not always uh uh I cannot always do it sometimes I get worried and stuff like this. Oh yeah. But you know, the thing is this when you can really free yourself and see it that way that uh the nes necessary element of your life, the uncertainty uh that is again, what I said earlier, you know, we are just like we, so as if we had have decided to not have a control dream anymore, but a real thing which is

Josef Schinwald

01:04:09 - 01:04:57

all possibilities. You, you, you are just, I just, I'm me because I just was, it was happening now to me in this world, right? And we are. But ultimately, we all have profound life itself. Like Roy said, the Romi ancient uh sage in Persia, 12th 12th century, he said, you're not a top in the ocean, you are the ocean in the top. So it's the holographic idea that we have all of the universe in us. And we are also in the universe. That's all for me. It's all of me. And uh and we can, you know, we, we can, we can, we can say that life would not be life if we would be able to know the future because then

Josef Schinwald

01:04:57 - 01:05:07

then it could not be life anymore. It must, it would be something else. Not impossible, actually impossible to, to imagine such a life where you would know everything.

Jeff Bullas

01:05:08 - 01:05:34

Yep. For me, in terms of Christianity and religion talks about heaven being something without reality. Is that heaven that lies within all of us? Paradise is within all of us. And we talk about, you know, gods and stuff. But for me,

Jeff Bullas

01:05:37 - 01:05:43

I discovered a God and a God lies within me. I'm not talking about, I'm a God. But what I'm saying is that

Jeff Bullas

01:05:46 - 01:06:03

I really am excited with the fact that God is much bigger than the fixation of a religion. Our gods are within all of us to discover the world and explore that. That's what I find really, really exciting.

Josef Schinwald

01:06:04 - 01:06:35

Yes. That is curiosity. That is curiosity. For me, the main curiosity you see if you read the Tasaka Sutra in Buddhism. And as I said, I don't subscribe to any organized religion, I don't believe anything really. But if you read it, there is the mention of God and Buddhist and the difference between a God there is that he's still selfish. He's like a Buddha, but he's not a selfless Buddha like the Buddhist, he's still selfish, but he's a Buddha.

Josef Schinwald

01:06:35 - 01:07:08

So I can clearly understand if you look at chef Pesos and people like this, right? I mean, to talk about the fact that they will populate the whole, you know, uh space and all this and make uh rhythms and worlds. These are gods, they are self selfish, I believe, you know, and uh then there are the Buddhas and they are also there and we have it all in us uh God himself. For me. What was a real enlightening uh understanding suddenly was that you have the two Christian Islamic conceptions. And that's the cosmology goes with it

Josef Schinwald

01:07:09 - 01:07:39

like the creation and all this, it's clearly completely different in the East. The image of God is a different image in different cosmology also. And if you can somehow respect both ideas and recognize that you never will know it, maybe, maybe you will never meet a God because how can you if there is no God? Atheism is big in our culture. Because obviously today Christian Islamic tradition,

Josef Schinwald

01:07:40 - 01:08:12

if you don't believe in that God out there, then you are essayist in the East, like in Buddhism, it's a very natural thing because you, you, you don't expect to meet a God because you just expect that your own nature comes out and because there is no conception of God, they don't have a problem running around in the state. Uh And telling everybody I'm God and then, you know, you might be crucified, they don't, but no, nothing is better. This is not better and that is not better. It's for me, nobody knows. And that is the fascinating thing.

Josef Schinwald

01:08:13 - 01:09:07

I read the Upanishads, which is the philosophical scripture of Hinduism, which is the r the Vedas, the r waiters and the Maharat and the pa the Bhagat kit and all this, everything India is the oldest, the oldest, but the Upanishads, they write about the SAGES of India the saint. No saint, no, no saints. Right? There are Yogis and ses they write about those and you know how it starts and it's so deep, the whole thing is so deep. It starts out, nobody knows anything. Not even those ss, not even those Yogis, they don't know anything. We don't know anything that is enlightening for me because you see that is uh that is like Chuang Chu in China, Taoism. He says the world is like a bird who opens its beak, the bird opens its beak and it utters a sound.

Josef Schinwald

01:09:08 - 01:09:50

That's the world. Now, that's the world's sound. And then it closes again, mystery upon mystery earth and the world is over. It's like the peak of a bird. And I think as far as we can go, it's always mystery and paradox, mystery, paradox, paradox. Beyond words, words are bigger, the more you talk about it, you want to nail it down. You say now have this conversation and we want to argue and we want to discuss maybe the words will enlighten us. The words never enlighten you. They always stay vigorous. Ultimately, you always have 10 words for one thing. Some people work about it because they are not interested in energy. The third one says something else and words are definite, just pointers like in Zen Buddhism and pointers,

Josef Schinwald

01:09:50 - 01:10:13

uh the finger pointing to the moon, don't look at the finger. It's just pointing to reality, the reality is not the word. And uh that's also called, basically, uh I can go on and on and you probably don't want that. And uh so ultimately, it's a paradox. The whole thing is a mystery. That's my, my two words. It's a paradox beyond words and a mystery. That's how far I get.

Jeff Bullas

01:10:14 - 01:10:17

So enjoy the adventure and the mystery of life

Jeff Bullas

01:10:20 - 01:10:37

and embrace that because then it becomes an incredible adventure. So, thank you very much Joseph for sharing your insights about life and r podcasting. And it's been an absolute joy to actually have this conversation. Thank you,

Josef Schinwald

01:10:38 - 01:10:48

Jeffrey. That's wonderful to know you and who would have known that this conversation was the way it is, the way it was? Thank you very much also. Thank you.

Jeff Bullas

01:10:48 - 01:10:52

It's been an absolute pleasure.